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Discussion Starter #1
Re: [EVDL] Soneil chargers, was Re: Top-up Charger

I like Cor's method of removing the thermal insulating properties of
the case from the problem, and getting down to true cooling of the
internal heatsink as likely the best way to go. As a former hardware
guy (hp Customer Engineer for over twenty five years), I know how to
do what Cor is suggesting. For me this would be the way to go to get
around the thermal issues of using those sweet Soneil chargers that
have problems on high temperature ambient air days.

But, then my old-school hp-way training kicked in, paring down to the
lowest common denominator of EV'r: some people may not be that techie,
adventure-some, or comfortable tearing into a charger. So, I thought
of what could be done to cool the all 16 Soneil chargers keeping them
intact (as is, in their unopened case) just encase Soneil does not
contact me or offer a fix.

If I had a set of these charging my pack, I would likely want each one
near the battery it is charging. This would make it easy to see which
batteries are weaker (that battery's Soneil charger would take longer
to reach full charged when its built-in indicator led would change
from yellow:charging to green:charge-cycle-complete). This would help
to know the health of the pack over time.

My approach then would be to put all the Soneil chargers inside a
clear see-through air duct
http://img2.prosperent.com/images/250x250/www.activeforever.com/images/product/medium/C01313.jpg
which is fed by a fan drawing the cooler air from from underneath the
EV.

Since there is little to no acid spray from an AGM when charging, and
the DC current is low, a standard automotive connector could be used
between the Soneil charger and the battery. This would allow easier
yanking of the pack. The AC cord would run inside the duct to power
all the Soneil chargers.

In my case (my aforementioned onboard EV charging wish-list) I would
dedicate the Soneil chargers to use the 110VAC input coming from
either a typical level 1 outlet or the one available on the Coulomb
EVSE being install where I am.

If so, I would use a 110VAC fan wired so when ever the Soneil chargers
were powered, the fan would be on as well. If someone wanted to use a
dual AC input voltage Soneil charger model, then a 12VDC fan could be
used. Though not much, the fan would steal some DC charging amps from
recharging/balancing the pack.

{brucedp.150m.com}



> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>
> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Soneil chargers, was Re: Top-up Charger
> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 12:51:25 +0530
>
> The plastic case is probably part of their
> safety, I mean the protection against touching HV.
[...]
> For the Soneil - I guess it depends whether there
> is still warranty on them and whether you can
> open the case without destroying it
> (many laptop charger style bricks cannot be
> opened, it plastic case is glued or more commonly
> ultrasonic welded shut.
> If you need to open them anyway to provide the
> cooling to make them last, then there is less
> concern for the case of course.
> Many power supplies I have seen in this form factor
> have a rather solid alu heatsink following the
> interior of the brick with the power transistor
> (and sometimes also the output diode) insulated
> from it.
> Opening it and [mounting] it on a flat (non-conducting)
> surface, preferably with standoffs to avoid stressing
> the PCB too much - possibly still using the bottom
> of the case with holes drilled through where there
> are holes in the PCB to hold it in the enclosure,
> then if needed adding fan(s) to blow air over the
> open supplies will greatly reduce the heatsink-to-
> ambient thermal resistance.
> Please note that this will not do much for the
> temp delta between the actual part and heatsink,
> so at best you can reduce the heatsink temp and
> make the unit run cooler and last longer, it is
> not a good way to increase its spec, so do not try
> to get more current from it or run it at lower than
> spec input voltage... [...]
> Regards,
> Cor van de Water
-


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Registered
Joined
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70 Posts
Discussion Starter #2
Re: [EVDL] Soneil chargers, was Re: Top-up Charger

You guys may want to take some temperature readings off one of these
chargers while under load. There may be a particular side that gets
hottest and would indicate where to direct the cooling. A solution may
be as simple as providing airflow to that side.

DAC

On Thu, Feb 17, 2011 at 8:51 AM, bruce parmenter <[email protected]> w=
rote:
> I like Cor's method of removing the thermal insulating properties of
> the case from the problem, and getting down to true cooling of the
> internal heatsink as likely the best way to go. As a former hardware
> guy (hp Customer Engineer for over twenty five years), I know how to
> do what Cor is suggesting. For me this would be the way to go to get
> around the thermal issues of using those sweet Soneil chargers that
> have problems on high temperature ambient air days.
>
> But, then my old-school hp-way training kicked in, paring down to the
> lowest common denominator of EV'r: some people may not be that techie,
> adventure-some, or comfortable tearing into a charger. So, I thought
> of what could be done to cool the all 16 Soneil chargers keeping them
> intact (as is, in their unopened case) just encase Soneil does not
> contact me or offer a fix.
>
> If I had a set of these charging my pack, I would likely want each one
> near the battery it is charging. This would make it easy to see which
> batteries are weaker (that battery's Soneil charger would take longer
> to reach full charged when its built-in indicator led would change
> from yellow:charging to green:charge-cycle-complete). This would help
> to know the health of the pack over time.
>
> My approach then would be to put all the Soneil chargers inside a
> clear see-through air duct
> http://img2.prosperent.com/images/250x250/www.activeforever.com/images/pr=
oduct/medium/C01313.jpg
> which is fed by a fan drawing the cooler air from from underneath the
> EV.
>
> Since there is little to no acid spray from an AGM when charging, and
> the DC current is low, a standard automotive connector could be used
> between the Soneil charger and the battery. This would allow easier
> yanking of the pack. The AC cord would run inside the duct to power
> all the Soneil chargers.
>
> In my case (my aforementioned onboard EV charging wish-list) I would
> dedicate the Soneil chargers to use the 110VAC input coming from
> either a typical level 1 outlet or the one available on the Coulomb
> EVSE being install where I am.
>
> If so, I would use a 110VAC fan wired so when ever the Soneil chargers
> were powered, the fan would be on as well. If someone wanted to use a
> dual AC input voltage Soneil charger model, then a 12VDC fan could be
> used. Though not much, the fan would steal some DC charging amps from
> recharging/balancing the pack.
>
> {brucedp.150m.com}
>
>
>
>> ----- Original Message -----
>> From: "Cor van de Water" <[email protected]>
>> To: "Electric Vehicle Discussion List" <[email protected]>
>> Subject: Re: [EVDL] Soneil chargers, was Re: Top-up Charger
>> Date: Thu, 17 Feb 2011 12:51:25 +0530
>>
>> The plastic case is probably part of their
>> safety, I mean the protection against touching HV.
> [...]
>> For the Soneil - I guess it depends whether there
>> is still warranty on them and whether you can
>> open the case without destroying it
>> (many laptop charger style bricks cannot be
>> opened, it plastic case is glued or more commonly
>> ultrasonic welded shut.
>> If you need to open them anyway to provide the
>> cooling to make them last, then there is less
>> concern for the case of course.
>> Many power supplies I have seen in this form factor
>> have a rather solid alu heatsink following the
>> interior of the brick with the power transistor
>> (and sometimes also the output diode) insulated
>> from it.
>> Opening it and [mounting] it on a flat (non-conducting)
>> surface, preferably with standoffs to avoid stressing
>> the PCB too much - possibly still using the bottom
>> of the case with holes drilled through where there
>> are holes in the PCB to hold it in the enclosure,
>> then if needed adding fan(s) to blow air over the
>> open supplies will greatly reduce the heatsink-to-
>> ambient thermal resistance.
>> Please note that this will not do much for the
>> temp delta between the actual part and heatsink,
>> so at best you can reduce the heatsink temp and
>> make the unit run cooler and last longer, it is
>> not a good way to increase its spec, so do not try
>> to get more current from it or run it at lower than
>> spec input voltage... [...]
>> Regards,
>> Cor van de Water
> -
>
>
> --
> _______________________________________________
> Surf the Web in a faster, safer and easier way:
> Download Opera 9 at http://www.opera.com
>
>
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> | Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
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| REPLYING: address your message to [email protected] only.
| Multiple-address or CCed messages may be rejected.
| UNSUBSCRIBE: http://www.evdl.org/help/index.html#usub
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