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Rx8 Hyper9 or Dc

  • Hyper9

    Votes: 2 66.7%
  • Dc motor

    Votes: 1 33.3%

  • Total voters
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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
My car is ready for motors and batteries. I have the rest of it set up and working. I was set on Hyper9 with Tesla modules but keep swinging back to price and performance. I can’t find any good information about how the Hyper9 actually performs. I have watched a few videos (f150 with one and Evwest Van) and seem like it would be good. Also just going by the numbers seems like it fits what I want.
But, I keep reading people saying something like an 11” dc are so much better. This is gonna be a commuter car (80-100miles range). I don’t want it to be a dog but don’t need a race car either.

Thoughts?anyone with a hyper 9 care to vote me in?

Edit: Keeping clutch and 6 speed manual trans.
 

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An 11 inch DC will give you a lot more grunt - and be cheaper
BUT a Hyper9 will be more sophisticated and will give re-gen braking

For track use there is no comparison
For a commuter??

Personally if I was going AC I would be looking at a motor from a production EV - like the Leaf
 

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There is no situation I would use a Hyper9.

I would go with a used OEM motor, like from a Prius Gen 2 or Gen 3, or a Lexus GS450h, or a Leaf. You can pick up Prius ones for as low as like, $100. Another $100 for the inverter, and then a control board from OpenInverter.org or EVBMW.com.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
There is no situation I would use a Hyper9.

I would go with a used OEM motor, like from a Prius Gen 2 or Gen 3, or a Lexus GS450h, or a Leaf. You can pick up Prius ones for as low as like, $100. Another $100 for the inverter, and then a control board from OpenInverter.org or EVBMW.com.
Why? Just cost alone?
 

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There is no situation I would use a Hyper9.

I would go with a used OEM motor, like from a Prius Gen 2 or Gen 3, or a Lexus GS450h, or a Leaf. You can pick up Prius ones for as low as like, $100. Another $100 for the inverter, and then a control board from OpenInverter.org or EVBMW.com.
Where can you find Prius motors for that cheap?
 

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If you go to a Prius junkyard (which seem quite plentiful where I am - NorCal) they'll sell all sorts of parts for excellent prices. Ebay, they're more expensive (shipping) but $250 for transaxle, $200 for inverter.
 

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Why? Just cost alone?
Cost, reliability, cost and ease of replacement, performance.

A Hyper9 is a very low quantity product, which means high price for the specs.

Compare that with Toyota's reputation for quality, and it being automotive grade (massive numbers, massive liability if anything breaks, world-class engineering).

Same reason you go with OEM batteries instead of buy CALB or whatever large-form-factor lithium cells. Used OEM are several order of magnitude more reliable than new large format cells, and almost an order of magnitude cheaper too.

There's just no benefit to not going with OEM. Hell I got a FREE forklift motor that is AC, and I'm half-regretting not just using Prius or Lexus parts.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
What makes you think the Hyper9 is low quality? Seems those motors are for heavy pump applications that probably see a lot of abuse. I bet there is a lot of competition for motors in harsh environments.

Am I missing something but the Prius looks like you are getting a slightly wimpy complete transaxle or am I looking at the wrong version? Also the Lexus setup looks equally as convoluted with multiple rotors and crap? Leaf looks like the only “motor” that can be separated and used as a motor. I don’t want some bastard looking thing hooked up to a rear drive six speed....
 

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Matt stated it was low quantity, not low quality :)

Lexus transmission is certainly powerful
It can be controlled over CAN so the wiring is nice and simple, hooking it to the driveline is a little more complicated (usually they are thrown in place of the original transmission).

Prius motors -- very easily available, plenty reliable, Toyota added tons of protection systems so the inverters last forever. But the assembly and tuning of the Prius setup is quite painful, and you have to do things like welding the planetary gears to get proper power delivery.

Leaf motor is where it's at for transmission use. I haven't driven a Leaf/transmission car but a Geo Metro with the full Leaf transaxle spun the front tires up to 30mph. I don't want to know what would happen in first gear.

-Isaac
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Oops, guess I should learn to read first 🙄.

I was figuring the Prius would be a special kind of crazy install.
The things I like about the Hyper9 are that it’s “ off the shelf” somewhat, easy communication over CAN, standard layout, decent torque, simple install. Also the motor will outlive the car you put it in and can easily transplant into different vehicle. I don’t get why it gets shit on all the time. I thought I was missing something. Seems like a good setup for a 2500lb car. It’s not cheap but you save in all the other ways.
I’m keeping an eye on Dave Blackhurst’s leaf motor rx8 to see how it turns out. Seems like a lot of crap to save a few grand though....but if it’s good might be worth it.
 

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Well... The Hyper9 is certainly a good motor. It's got good support to back it up and decent specs.
So if you want the plug and play it's a good choice. Looking at the graphs, torque starts dropping at ~3800rpm when using a 156v supply (which seems to be the limit). So a good match for a 6-speed manual.

How is Dave Blackhurst controlling his motor?
Thunderstruck Motors sells a plug-and-play Leaf controller for $500, not sure what torque numbers they get (apparently Leaf is rated for 187 ft-lbs [factory] versus the ~162 of the Hyper9).

-Isaac
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Well... The Hyper9 is certainly a good motor. It's got good support to back it up and decent specs.
So if you want the plug and play it's a good choice. Looking at the graphs, torque starts dropping at ~3800rpm when using a 156v supply (which seems to be the limit). So a good match for a 6-speed manual.

How is Dave Blackhurst controlling his motor?
Thunderstruck Motors sells a plug-and-play Leaf controller for $500, not sure what torque numbers they get (apparently Leaf is rated for 187 ft-lbs [factory] versus the ~162 of the Hyper9).

-Isaac
I think Dave is just using the Can bus but not sure. Check out his YouTube videos and you can see what’s what. We worked together to figure out the rx8 can bus to get all the dash lights out and still have abs and traction control (not really TC but the module is happy, abs works, power steering).
I like the torque profile for the manual trans as well. I never go over 3k really on the highway anyway.
 

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Wow! Looks like he's going to have full control with minimal modifications to the high-voltage stuffs.

Keep us posted on the pair of RX8 EVs :)
 

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My car is ready for motors and batteries. I have the rest of it set up and working. I was set on Hyper9 with Tesla modules but keep swinging back to price and performance. I can’t find any good information about how the Hyper9 actually performs. I have watched a few videos (f150 with one and Evwest Van) and seem like it would be good. Also just going by the numbers seems like it fits what I want.
But, I keep reading people saying something like an 11” dc are so much better. This is gonna be a commuter car (80-100miles range). I don’t want it to be a dog but don’t need a race car either.

Thoughts?anyone with a hyper 9 care to vote me in?

Edit: Keeping clutch and 6 speed manual trans.
Hey,
It's amazing how much the costs of aftermarket AC motors and controllers have come down over the years. Now let me say I am a DC motor guy at heart, and ALWAYS will be, BUT, the Hyper 9 is pretty awesome. Hyper 9 will give you 125HP and 172 ft lbs of torque 0-5500 RPM. DC motors are great for high performance, torturing transmissions ;) and fun stuff like that.

But if you just want a commuter car, you should go with the Hyper 9 and here's why. First of all, it looks AND sounds super cool. Email me and I'll send you a recording of one, but man all I have to say is it's far from silent. Got a good bit of volume to it to, but it just sounds so sweet as it spools up. It looks absolutely fantastic. If you're going for a beautiful look under the hood and to show off to people, hyper 9 is the way to go for sure.

And FINALLY, we just released a new device called the Systems Control Module, or SCM. It has been designed for Hyper 9/Orion BMS builds. It is a module that controls almost all aspects of your conversion, and greatly simplifies wiring. It has a connector on the unit, that plugs directly into the Orion BMS. It has a few simple inputs/outputs to trigger different things depending on what options you have installed. Best part, it's build to order, so if you want electric A/C, or power steering, or heat, or a battery coolant preheater that preheats your tesla modules automatically, it does that and everything. Another option is a cute small affordable display to give basic battery info.
Anyways, point is, it really simplifies a lot. I first designed it for use in my company builds to save so many hours wiring, but then others wanted me to make it a user friendly device. And that I did - it is mostly plug and play. All of the info can be found HERE .

If you email me and let me know it's you, I'll give you a $100 coupon on the SCM because I am excited for you and this build. It's going to be a great journey and a fun project! Please reach out if you need any help planning your build, or sourcing parts, whatever you need. I can help get you the best prices on motors/controllers/batteries/fuses/BMS, everything I can.

Cheers,
Adam
[email protected]
 

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I use a hyper9 in a Opel Corsa A. Great engine with lot of Power and with the eveurope kit its Super easy to install. DC are no option, because of EMV and TÜV here in Germany.
 
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