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Series 2 Land Rover & Hyper 9 Direct to LT230 Build Thread

18379 Views 81 Replies 20 Participants Last post by  VintageVolts
Hi Folks,
Long time lurker and learner here from the UK (South Wales), thought i'd start documenting my build as it slowly progresses.

The vehicle:
a 1961 Land Rover 88" Series 2 - bought brand new by my grandfather in 1961, then was passed down to my late father in the 80's, and on to me in 2009 where i stripped it back to the chassis and rebuilt it.

Here's one of my favourite pictures of it doing what it does best, i.e. being awesome! This was after arriving home from rescuing my sister during the 'Beast from the East' in... 2018 i think it was.
Vehicle Land vehicle Car Snow Tire


We've been pretty much everywhere in it including a guelling LEJOG and then the "North Coast 500" in Scotland a few years ago, and probably hundreds of camping trips.
Over the years it's had various different engines:
  1. Left the factory with a 2.25 petrol,
  2. Dad fitted a 2.8 V6 petrol Cologne engine in it in 1990-ish,
  3. I fitted a 2.5NA Diesel (cheap insurance at the time), as well as:
  4. 300TDi (great engine, not bad speed but noisy as hell)
  5. Essex V6 3.0 which i built EFi for using the Speeduino/Arduino platform, my build for that conversion is here on the speeduino forum. This is a pretty rapid engine but to be honest too fast for what it's in... the more you rev it the more power it seems to give, and it just gets scary. lol. It's also now extremely expensive to run! Also quite loud, and the engine weighs a ton being cast iron everything. I also have a stubby R380 gearbox squuzed in there.
I have disc brakes using the now defunct (as far as i know) YakYak classics conversion kit (defender discs, discovery calipers) and P38 power steering (range rover). So it's basically 99% original...
This is where my next adventure begins... A background from me - i work with 'smart buildings' mainly with comms including with lithium / other weird chemistry battery installations in grid connected buildings, so have a basic/fair idea of how not to burn my fingertips. Also am a keen CAD user as i also make prototype stuff at work - obviously Electric Vehicles are a whole new frontier for me so that's why i'm here! We have a bunch of different EV cars and vans at work so am familiar with the good and 'bad' bits of EV driving and charging.


As my Landy has an LT230 i started looking at ways to drive the transfer box directly with a motor rather than leave the original gearbox in place - this should leave me with a lot more room under the bonnet for a larger battery pack, with the motor tucked away somewhere in the transmission tunnel. I'll also save weight as the R380 is fairly hefty.

I like the look of the Hyper 9HV & controller, and see that Jaunt Electric Videos (YouTube vid) has used a hyper9, as well as This kit from Evolution Australia.

I've currently got a 1.667 ratio LT230 on my workbench which i'm rebuilding. This, coupled with my 3.54:1 diffs and 215/85/R16 tyres should give the following gearing in high range - see the MPH column i've added to the left in an expert way: basically 1mph is 66rpm at the motor.

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I expect to mostly use the Landy for commuting the 15 minutes / 7 miles to work, which means doing either 30mph or just under 70 which i currently do. I don't need it to be a rocket ship - i am aware this car is a tin shed on wheels, and it can already go extremely fast, but i just choose not to go that fast as i get older (wiser!). We also use the landy for camping, and christmas shopping where people are free to slam their car doors into my battered doors. lol


To make a start and because i needed a huge paperweight i decided to 3D print a full size dual shaft Hyper 9DHV motor, i like to have something hands on to chuck around with a tape measure in the other hand:
Wood Audio equipment Hardwood Gas Home appliance


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Needs some sanding or whatever but it certainly does the job!

To drive the LT230 from the motor requires a shaft adapter which i've drawn up and will hopefully get a quote for in the coming days. If anyone knows the exact spline designation for the R380 / LT77 mainshaft please speak up but i'm quite sure i've got it measured correctly. Shaft connector mockup:

Saw Tool Power tool Wood Machine tool


Measured the spline profile of a brand new shaft with a Keyence VHX-7000 microscope, which measures surface topography of 'stuff'. a very cool machine.


Back in the world of CAD i've got an assembly with a pre-prototype adapter plate and shaft converter:
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Cutaway view: (are you bored of pictures yet? apologies). Aiming for the shaft converter to be a transition fit on to the keyed shaft, and held in place with the purple cap head bolt. Needs to be tight enough to stay concentric but not so tight that you can never get it off.
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Now, i was a bit worried about the shaft coupler not being meaty enough but a stress simulation (in Autodesk Inventor 2022) at 2000NM i.e. 10x max motor torque shows the 300M steel nowhere near its yield point, so this is good news. This simulation has motor torque applied at the keyway, and reactive torque applied on the surface of the splines.
Drinkware Cylinder Line Camera accessory Liquid

Also(!) the ZF gearbox to LT230 adapter used in some older range rovers(i.e. this ) has much thinner walls as well as sharp splines inside so we can only be on a winner here...!


To do in the short term: - get my LT230 to a CMM in the next few days, luckily my distant colleagues have one so i may shoot a few emails off tomorrow. So far i've measured the LT230 holes with a good set of calipers, verifying measurements as best i can with a laser cut 'gasket', but a CMM will tell us for sure:
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as for remaining hardware such as batteries, i'd like to use Tesla batteries as used in other Hyper 9 installs, I like the Tesla packs as they're water cooled and seem to be popular. As for BMS i'm leaning towards the Orion with the little cell breakout boards, but simpBMS has been mentioned too, and is less wiring -more googling required.

Charging: I really want to go down the 'smaller battery pack with quicker charger' design route but so far haven't found a solution above 6.6kW. CCS seems out of the window as my max battery voltage is going to be 144V to suit the Hyper 9 HV controller, i.e. the SME AC-X144 - and CCS minimum DC voltage is 200V at this moment in time. I see the Tesla Gen2 charger is 10kW or so but i don't think CAN is implemented just yet. It'll be a while before i have the cash to buy chargers, BMS and batteries so there's plenty of time to learn yet!

Thanks to those who have answered my questions on other posts here, and thanks to all of you who have taken the time to make youtube videos.
Cheers
Tom

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(i'm having a hard time working out quotes on here!! omg)

to the contactor question - i don't think i'd kill the main contactor as the flyback would (probably) destroy the motor controller. I'll follow the EV west diagram and the examples given for the Orion 2 BMS.



does the engine have a spline cad model or which standard? DIN5480 or something?
No sorry, the spline is a proprietary design by Land Rover as far as i know - the pressure angle on the splines is much smaller than what i could see in all the standards i looked in (we have access to standards in my workplace).

Update: mainly shopping
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I now have in hand:
  • 14 battery modules from an eTron, bought from EVbreakers - very good people to deal with IMO.
  • Four chill plates which i'll have to modify slightly to fit my modules (modules are too long!) from ZeroEV.
  • DANA / Netgain SME compact display, from EVeurope
  • Orion 2 BMS - i printed and have bound the install and operation manuals so i can vandalise them with notes and highlighters. They're a great read! From ZeroEV
  • Vac pump (707254020) for the brake servo, along with a SPVL3521219 vac switch and reservoir from a london taxi. dead cheap from car breakers on eBay.
  • TRW PA66 power steering pump from a Vauxhall Astra, also from a car breakers on eBay.
  • 1000W DCDC converter.
  • 6.6kW Elcon charger, thanks to MoonUnit on this forum!
  • Big sheet of copper to make busbars from, I can plastidip and tin plate them myself.
  • bailiffs at the door (well not quite)


With my Hyper9 HV Install i want to hook up a brake pressure transducer, to squeeze as many Watt hours back in to the battery as i can, because the land rover is not particularly aerodynamic...
Googling suggested that the brake system i have has a max pressure of 96 bar. So i got a Bosch 0261545059 144 bar pressure transducer - the datasheet specifically says it's suitable for brake fluid, which can be quite nasty. Sensor has a M10 x 1mm thread, so for me it was a case of changing a three way tee for the front brakes to a four way tee / union . pin 1 is ground, pin 2 is signal and 3 is +5V supply.

I hooked up a data logger and went for a drive:
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The three biggest spikes are where i was pressing as hard as i could on the pedal whilst stopped at traffic lights. Regular braking happens at up to 40-50 bar and the transducer picks this up nicely, so i'm happy with it.

Next job is finishing off an electric actuator for the central difflock - more on this later. It would be easy to use a vac actuator but i don't want to add a potential failure point for my brakes... cos they're kind of important 馃 I've got a solution for the hi/neutral/low gears which works really well.

Cheers!
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OK, so! A few pictures, I have been busy over the past few weeks, also went on holiday and stuff so that was nice

Started with this:
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Then this,
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Then, after a bit of tidying, this!
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There's more to take out, and whilst i'm here i'll strip and paint the chassis, put all new brake lines in, and do pretty much a full rewire - the original wiring is a complete mess.

For holding the 'new' drive unit in place i set about making some decent mountings.
The original setup (well... in Defenders and Discovery 1's) is one gearbox mount per side. The mounts are quite soft so I've used two per side to make a nice and sturdy setup - i can always take one out in the future if needed. Here's a [badly] tack-welded, almost finished mount for the RHS. Pleased to say they're all fully welded up now!
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I made sure the position of the mounts were symmetrical relative to the output driveshafts, to hopefully avoid the box skewing side to side under torque. Managed to use the original chassis mounting positions too.

I've got a hydraulic accumulator bracket on the way to hold the end of the motor in place. I can't see there being a huge amount of force on this bracket, but it will obviously bob up and down without one.

Here's the state of affairs at the moment
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Thought i'd chuck the seatbox back in just to see if it still fits - which it does!
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Now it's time to lift the motor up again, take all the brackets off and paint them, and degrease / paint the chassis. I also scalloped the chassis years and years ago when i had a different gearbox, so will put it back to how it was originally.

Originality is key! :p

Very exciting!
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Oh i forgot!

Comparison pics of drivetrains:

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These are probably my favourite pictures so far - the difference is incredible (to me)
Cheers
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Oh i forgot!

Comparison pics of drivetrains:

View attachment 132814

View attachment 132815

These are probably my favourite pictures so far - the difference is incredible (to me)
Cheers
Great pics!! Well done, nice progress
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Nicely integrated.

What did you use for the motor adapter and coupler to the transfer case?

Do you plan to run it in low or high gear?
Oh i forgot!

Comparison pics of drivetrains:

View attachment 132814

View attachment 132815

These are probably my favourite pictures so far - the difference is incredible (to me)
Cheers
Nice comparison. Now add the fuel tank to the engine, and the battery to the electric motor, and compare again... different result. Unfortunately for making EV conversions look good, an electric motor really is not equivalent in function to a fuel-burning engine.
What did you use for the motor adapter and coupler to the transfer case?
Thanks, i made my own adapter plate and had the adapter shaft machined elsewhere after designing one, see post 6 onwards on this thread.

I'll be running it in high gear, i.e. 1.667:1, with 3.54:1 diffs , i'm unlikely to get super rapid acceleration BUT that's not what i'm after. i want something to commute with, go shopping, and camping with, I think my drag racing days are over now that i've grown up a bit (perhaps)

I have the option to swap to 4.7:1 diffs if needed but may have to watch the propshaft RPMs at that point.

Here's a snapshot of my ratio calculator for all available LT230 ratios

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A clear case of Covid-brain - I totally forgot about the earlier posts even though they were impressive. Sorry about that.
If you use your 1.667 LT230 reduction & your axle reduction of 3.54 that gives you a total drivetrain reduction of 5.9:1. The Hyper 9 HV looks like it has a max torque of around 220Nm? - so this would be a max wheel torque of 1298Nm.

Using the 2.25 petrol series engine as an example comparison - it has a max torque of about 168Nm - so would give the same wheel torque when geared to total drivetrain reduction of 7.7:1.
Using the same axle and LT230 gives a gear box reduction of 1.3:1 which would be equivalent acceleration to the 2.25 petrol stuck in 3rd gear.

I know you're not drag racing - but I learnt to drive and spent a lot of time in my dad's 2.25 series 3 and would say third gear acceleration was rather pedestrian.

The 4.7 ratio axles would give you 1723Nm wheel torque (33% more) which is more like acceleration in 2nd gear (well more like 2.5 gear if there was such a gear!)
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I learnt to drive and spent a lot of time in my dad's 2.25 series 3 and would say third gear acceleration was rather pedestrian.
True indeed, I guess you'd have to hold the engine at its peak torque RPM and slip the clutch to get the max torque out of it though, by which time the clutch would be smoking and your dad would probably be hitting you as the engine revved it balls off 馃槅

Here's another old landy with a conversion using the Hyper 9, the dude keeps his in third gear with the original [i'm assuming Suffix C] box

Stay tuned to find out ... there's no going back now!

plenty of room in the boot for rocket boosters
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For those casual spectators of EV conversions what rpm does the Hyper9 rev to?
The cruising RPM of my Disco 2 is around 2700rpm in overdrive top so would need around 3800rpm to match it. I have seen some EV conversions running a 2.8:1 planetary reduction which helps turn the 12,000rpm into greater peak torque delivered more often than a ICE can manage.

The JerryRigEverything Hummer EV conversion runs this set up into an Atlas transfer case.
The Hyper9 has a max of 8000RPM, and the Hyper 9 HV which i've got has a max of 9000 according to EV Europe. This is 133mph in my case, not including wind drag and exploding propshafts of course. It's not the going fast that's difficult, it's stopping (in the rain etc). I'll probably speed limit it in the software to some sensible number.

I tend to do about 65mph on the motorway when cruising, which is 4402 RPM. This may be a bit lower in the future to extend my range.

I've watched the JerryRig EV build, it must be nice to have such an endless budget!
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The Hyper9 has a max of 8000RPM, and the Hyper 9 HV which i've got has a max of 9000 according to EV Europe. This is 133mph in my case, not including wind drag and exploding propshafts of course. It's not the going fast that's difficult, it's stopping (in the rain etc). I'll probably speed limit it in the software to some sensible number.

I tend to do about 65mph on the motorway when cruising, which is 4402 RPM. This may be a bit lower in the future to extend my range.

I've watched the JerryRig EV build, it must be nice to have such an endless budget!
Ah ideal! Id probs design around a 85-90mph max speed if it was my project.

I think JRE's planetary reduction is the part of that project I would want for any EV project, perhaps one could be made using the planetary reduction from a ZF Auto-box?

R.E range... would a higher load but lower RPM give better range than lower load but higher RPM?
I'd have thought it would be the same power requirement but maybe the higher RPM would be in a better efficiency range for the motor?
You've done an amazing job since I last dropped in to this thread!

If the ratio turns out to be a bit too high, you could source a 109 T Ton transfer box, which is 1.53:1 in high range (3.27:1 Low). I think yours will be 1.15:1 High, 2.89:1 Low? That at least will fit straight on to your adaptor.

with 4.7:1 diffs - that would give 7.2:1 overall reduction compared to your 4.07:1.
That would result in 3120rpm @ 40mph (close to the peak efficiency of the motor)
5400rpm @ 70mph
8000rpm @ 103mph

Just a thought for the future!
I'd have thought it would be the same power requirement but maybe the higher RPM would be in a better efficiency range for the motor?
Highest efficiency is around 3200rpm for the Hyper 9
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OK, picture time!
At work i've fixed up a CNC plasma cutter that we had in storage - so that has been very handy to cut bits out! I could possibly cut a few bits for others in the UK if you're stuck.

My motor setup had the tendency to nod / rock back and forth, so some time was spent drawing up a cradle:

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These were the first bits i cut on on the plasma, which was pretty cool! The arms are 3mm mild, and the band is 2.5mm zintec
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I thought the fit to the rearmost band would be weird but it worked out well:
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Before fitting anything too permanently though i decided to degrease and pressure wash the old paint off - the engine bay had a decade of engine oil and grime etc stuck all over the place.

Here we are just before blasting... note i now have a gazebo (with lights!) as the winter is long and wet here in the UK

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And back to the red oxide primer, which is stuck on there for life
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whilst that was drying off I drew up a mount to cover the clutch pedal hole and hold the PAS pump
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Fresh off the cutter
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And folded / primered
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And here's where we are right now!
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I've also removed the terrible shelf brackets / wing hinge brackets at the front of the chassis, and added some more refined ones.

More pics in another post, i have run out of picture allowance in this post...
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Close up of motor steady - there's a layer of 1mm neoprene between the aluminium and steel band, for obvious reasons (corrosion)
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PAS pump:
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Oh i've also got a solution for keeping the original throttle pedal, using a Bosch throttle pedal position sensor, common on BMW E36, E39 etc up to 2000-ish, and Range Rover P38s!
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The existing throttle pedal and balljoint linkage is the right length to get just under the full range of travel out of the sensor, which is nice.- and the internal spring is more than enough to push the pedal up! I'll need to fit a weatherproof plug in place of the one that's on there, though.

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next steps: more painting(!), umm...
Fit the seat box, and make underseat boxes for electrical stuff to go in. I'm trying to keep the charger inside, as i drive the landy all year round and our roads get covered with salt in the winter

cheers
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If the ratio turns out to be a bit too high, you could source a 109 T Ton transfer box, which is 1.53:1 in high range (3.27:1 Low). I think yours will be 1.15:1 High, 2.89:1 Low? That at least will fit straight on to your adaptor.
Good idea, however i'm using the LT230 transfer box which is usually found in Defenders and discoveries, to my knowledge they weren't used in the 1 tons? The transfer boxes for the series gearboxes need much more machining to make an adapter plate for. Nothing's impossible of course but the LT230 is easier, for me anyway
Good idea, however i'm using the LT230 transfer box
Doh!

However, Ashcroft make a 1.667 gearset for LT230's - only 拢240

That alone might be enough.

I also have a (home made) CNC Plasma
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One of the single most useful tools I own. I love being able to go from an idea to a lump of metal in under 15 mins!
I've got a CNC Mill & Lathe too - but barely use them these days. Most jobs can be turned into something cut. folded, welded.

Likewise, anyone wants bits cut I'd be happy to assist. For free, if you supply the steel!
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