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Discussion Starter #1
hi every body... i'm thinking about a project that involve two main part.

chevrolet\opel volt\ampera battery and tesla small drive units.

as far as the chevrolet battery, i know that the oem bms can work as a stand alone to balancing the battery.

my question is, does it limit the amp for discharge available? i read that they can go to 10c, and "gm" keep it to a more conservative 7-8 c.... so the oem bms limit that?
does anybody know what would be the best way to maximize charging time with this battery? somebody have manage to make it work it with chademo\ccs or high kw AC charging? lots of chademo\ccs and 42kw ac charger in my area that's why i'm asking.

does anybody know how to communicate with the oem bms? to make it talk to a chademo or a 43kw AC charger?

for the tesla drive unit, i know that nissan leafs were putting far more kw than oem when tuned, like more than doubling without frying the igbt... what's about a 20\30% increase on max kw on the tesla drive train? somebody know what to do to make those increase a bit more reliable? better cooling? more water flow?

thanks you all!!!!
 

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The Volt OEM BMS can't control the discharge current. All it does is report cell volts/temps and balance when told to.

The motor controller is where you would limit discharge current.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
The Volt OEM BMS can't control the discharge current. All it does is report cell volts/temps and balance when told to.

The motor controller is where you would limit discharge current.
that's good for the amp discarge rate.. does anybody know if teslas drivetrains can ve pushed a little bit more than stock? i know from the forum that leaf motor can go far higher, but the teslas?

for the chevy volt there is anycontroller for the bms's to communicate between the oem settings to a chademo or something else like a ccs or 43kw ac?

i heard about somebody that manage to fit a ccs to a spark ev to get 25kw dc... somebody know something about it?
 

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... does anybody know if teslas drivetrains can ve pushed a little bit more than stock? i know from the forum that leaf motor can go far higher, but the teslas?
Tesla already pushes their motors much harder than Nissan.

It appears that Nissan has built basically the same motor for all generations of the Leaf, limiting it to a power level which is safe for the battery. It has gone from 80 kW in the original, to 110 kW in the new-for-2018 generation, and 150 kW with the Plus version. Tesla, in contrast, has always allowed much higher power, depending on active thermal management of the battery to withstand the load. There probably isn't much - if any - reserve left in the Tesla motors compared to their P100D silly-mode specs... and even then, they'll fail from overheating if you use that power for more than a few seconds.

The performance issue with Tesla motors certainly appears to be cooling... as the builders of the Tesla Powered Cobra Race Car have discovered.
 

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... does anybody know if teslas drivetrains can ve pushed a little bit more than stock? i know from the forum that leaf motor can go far higher, but the teslas?
Tesla already pushes their motors much harder than Nissan.

It appears that Nissan has built basically the same motor for all generations of the Leaf, limiting it to a power level which is safe for the battery. It has gone from 80 kW in the original, to 110 kW in the new-for-2018 generation, and 150 kW with the Plus version. Tesla, in contrast, has always allowed much higher power, depending on active thermal management of the battery to withstand the load. There probably isn't much - if any - reserve left in the Tesla motors compared to their P100D silly-mode specs... and even then, they'll fail from overheating if you use that power for more than a few seconds.

The performance issue with Tesla motors certainly appears to be cooling... as the builders of the Tesla Powered Cobra Race Car have discovered.

I could use a bigger radiator and make bigger cooling pipe!
Running a water pump with more flow or running the a/c as for the battery cooling also for the drive train line I don't know... Even some shots of c02 spray on the radiator!

I don't know really.. I'm not aiming for long distance high performance.. If I go for full blast I'm going for it for 10 to /15 second..

What do you think?
 

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I could use a bigger radiator and make bigger cooling pipe!
Running a water pump with more flow or running the a/c as for the battery cooling also for the drive train line I don't know... Even some shots of c02 spray on the radiator!

I don't know really.. I'm not aiming for long distance high performance.. If I go for full blast I'm going for it for 10 to /15 second..

What do you think?
I think you really should read about the challenges of that Cobra, which showed that the cooling problem is not so easily fixed.
 

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Tesla are using that motor and expecting to get almost zero failures in 300,000 miles - they are looking for a million mile life

If you are "tuning" any engine or motor you ALWAYS exchange "life" for power

I'm pushing 400 kW into a 10 kW motor - I'm pretty sure that you will be able to get more power out of a Tesla motor - but not at the same time as 300,000 miles
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I could use a bigger radiator and make bigger cooling pipe!
Running a water pump with more flow or running the a/c as for the battery cooling also for the drive train line I don't know... Even some shots of c02 spray on the radiator!

I don't know really.. I'm not aiming for long distance high performance.. If I go for full blast I'm going for it for 10 to /15 second..

What do you think?
I think you really should read about the challenges of that Cobra, which showed that the cooling problem is not so easily fixed.
I will absolutely investigate on this cobra about this issue!!! Thanks for pointing me in the right direction!!
 

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Discussion Starter #9
Tesla are using that motor and expecting to get almost zero failures in 300,000 miles - they are looking for a million mile life

If you are "tuning" any engine or motor you ALWAYS exchange "life" for power


I'm pushing 400 kW into a 10 kW motor - I'm pretty sure that you will be able to get more power out of a Tesla motor - but not at the same time as 300,000 miles

That's brilliant!! It's always the same thing like I've.. The more you push the less you got on reliability..
What exactly fail in the Teslas? I imagine it's an expensive part!

I would love to get control of the KW I'm pushing like I don't never need big power most of the time but every few time I need to smoke some big ice supercar... Like once every many days and for really few second...
 

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If you're bent on smoking an ICE car, then why are you using the small drive unit?
this
get the big rear one from a model 3, that one has far better active cooling systems with a heat exchanger and oil pump that speeds up as the motor gets hotter and everything. the old model S units had a gear driven oil pump driven by wheel speed and a bad heat exchanger.
Model S basically goes once around a track and limps home
Model 3 eats tracks all day
 

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this
get the big rear one from a model 3, that one has far better active cooling systems with a heat exchanger and oil pump that speeds up as the motor gets hotter and everything. the old model S units had a gear driven oil pump driven by wheel speed and a bad heat exchanger.
Model S basically goes once around a track and limps home
Model 3 eats tracks all day
And is a Model 3 motor (and controller) actually available? I know of several different solutions and availability of the S motor but none for the new 3.

Also a DIY install can install a bigger heat exchanger presumably, eliminating this problem entirely?
 

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Discussion Starter #13
If you're bent on smoking an ICE car, then why are you using the small drive unit?
Because I heard that has better cooling and already pushes 290hp.. So I thought can be tune to a bit more and reach 390hp like the big drive unit... And also more easy to fit in cause it's small.... In a second step I can put it a second one in the front and a second pack of volt battery on it....
 

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Discussion Starter #14
this
get the big rear one from a model 3, that one has far better active cooling systems with a heat exchanger and oil pump that speeds up as the motor gets hotter and everything. the old model S units had a gear driven oil pump driven by wheel speed and a bad heat exchanger.
Model S basically goes once around a track and limps home
Model 3 eats tracks all day
And is a Model 3 motor (and controller) actually available? I know of several different solutions and availability of the S motor but none for the new 3.

Also a DIY install can install a bigger heat exchanger presumably, eliminating this problem entirely?
Model 3 drive train still are far more expensive than model s drive units...

Is it really a big step forward as far as technology compared to the model s units?
 

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Discussion Starter #15
hi guys..

i will reuse this post because it's always the same question that i can't find answer..

comparing the big and small drive unit... the small one have 290hp... and considering the fact that leaf motor that were stock at 110hp that someone have triple the power... do you see possibility to push the small drive unit properly cooled to 400hp? it will be a far less increase in % compared to the ones with the leaf..... what do you think?

i can buy small du easier and cheaper.. and generally small du are younger than big ones...

just saying.. lighter for sure.. i wont need that power for very few seconds.... 10\20 sec,, i will drive most of the time far below those power needs..
 

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hi guys..

i will reuse this post because it's always the same question that i can't find answer..

comparing the big and small drive unit... the small one have 290hp... and considering the fact that leaf motor that were stock at 110hp that someone have triple the power... do you see possibility to push the small drive unit properly cooled to 400hp? it will be a far less increase in % compared to the ones with the leaf..... what do you think?

i can buy small du easier and cheaper.. and generally small du are younger than big ones...

just saying.. lighter for sure.. i wont need that power for very few seconds.... 10\20 sec,, i will drive most of the time far below those power needs..

sadly, tesla squeezes most every drop of power out of their motors, they don't have much headroom. By comparison, the leaf motor is basically choked by its inverter.
Although, maybe the small drive unit it the exception, i assume you're referring to the front drive unit on the newer model s/x

it's kind of like comparing a turbo engine that's already heavily tuned and optimized from the factory, where fiddling with it will just make it blow up on the dyno.....and a smog era V8 that's absolutely choked to death by restrictive air and exhaust, where freeing those up gets you tons of power instantly
 

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Discussion Starter #17
sadly, tesla squeezes most every drop of power out of their motors, they don't have much headroom. By comparison, the leaf motor is basically choked by its inverter.
Although, maybe the small drive unit it the exception, i assume you're referring to the front drive unit on the newer model s/x

it's kind of like comparing a turbo engine that's already heavily tuned and optimized from the factory, where fiddling with it will just make it blow up on the dyno.....and a smog era V8 that's absolutely choked to death by restrictive air and exhaust, where freeing those up gets you tons of power instantly
now i get it... i thought they were a bit chocked up.... to squeeze that 30%
but if i can work very good on cooling.. do you think i can work with it?

yes i'm refering to the small unit installed in the front of the d versions....
 

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... i assume you're referring to the front drive unit on the newer model s/x
The S/X front drive unit and the smaller rear drive unit in the same vehicles appear to be functionally identical, with the front unit just packaged a little differently; mostly, the motor is mounted higher to sit over the front of the battery pack.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
The S/X front drive unit and the smaller rear drive unit in the same vehicles appear to be functionally identical, with the front unit just packaged a little differently; mostly, the motor is mounted higher to sit over the front of the battery pack.
yes exactly, 'i'm aiming at those kind of drive unit...

as far as what i know the cooling system is better than the big drive unit as far as heating excenging.... su i tought that the max output could be higher if the cooling can be improved...
 
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