Smith Electric

16541 Views 89 Replies 17 Participants Last post by Gerardo, 24 d ago

Solarrx

Discussion Starter · Oct 29, 2020

I recently bought at auction a 2012 Smith Electric D75 ex FedEx step van. I am desperately looking for an owner’s/shop manual for it. None seems to exist! It would also be great to find someone close enough to come by and check it out. I live in Anaheim, CA. I have not been able to even start It as of yet, but I used the charger cable from my 2013 RAV4 EV and it seems to have charged up. Can anyone out there help me?

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brian_

· #41 · Aug 15, 2021 (Edited)

BigChief said:
Oh, thanks! I am not sure exactly how the cells are grouped, but it seems like the best hint is those little holes stamped in the middle of the rows, are exactly 26 holes, and I know it's a 26 series battery. Should I be charging them like I illustrate with the colored squares? The way I'm holding the multimeter probes in the picture was giving reverse polarity to what was marked on the battery, but by placing the probes in the matching color areas it was giving 3.3v at polarity that coincides with the battery markings.

View attachment 123303

It looks like a 26s 3p module, meaning that each group has three cells in parallel. That means that at each end of the module there is a set of cell terminal tabs for three cells (the left end of Group 1 in your annotated photo), and at each connection point in-between there is a set of cell terminal tabs for six cells (three from the positive end of one group, and three from the negative end of the next group); the cell tabs are connected together with metal channels and you have noted the sets with boxes. The channel which bridges the negative end of one set to the positive end of the next set (so the boundary between cell groups) looks different because it has a texture. So where the red meter probe is located is the negative end of group 1 and the positive end of group 2; the meter is measuring Group 2, and what you labelled as "Group 2" is the third group.

Each of those sets of cell tabs are connected by a wire to the BMS - you can see the BMS wires connected at each of them, on the part with the hole or the adjacent part (with the texture).

The same modules (made by A123 Systems and used in Smith trucks) appeared in an earlier thread, again with a discussion of the layout:
Question about balancing 26S/3P, 60 Ah A123 Brand 5KW modules

Other A123 modules appear to be similarly constructed, such as these in a for sale ad:
For Sale: A123 Battery Modules 10s3p and 13s3p with MBB & BCM (Michigan)

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jgilly69

· #42 · Aug 16, 2021

BigChief said:
Oh, thanks! I am not sure exactly how the cells are grouped, but it seems like the best hint is those little holes stamped in the middle of the rows, are exactly 26 holes, and I know it's a 26 series battery. Should I be charging them like I illustrate with the colored squares? The way I'm holding the multimeter probes in the picture was giving reverse polarity to what was marked on the battery, but by placing the probes in the matching color areas it was giving 3.3v at polarity that coincides with the battery markings.

View attachment 123303

It is actually group 1, 2 & 3. I will have to look thru the schematics, but I think the connectors are listed on the wiring diagram.

rosstex1

· #43 · Aug 17, 2021

i have a question i hope someone can answer. i bought one of the d75 step vans and copart has apparently lost the keys. Best i can find the steering column is Daewoo Avia d series and looks to share the ignition key and lock cylinder with an Isuzu NPR. since there is little info out there and i havent found any kind of key number for the van, i amhoping someone has had to deal with this and can help me out. i am going to pull the column apart next weekend. hopefully it is something i can pick up pretty easily. Thanks in Advance for any info!

jgilly69

· #44 · Aug 17, 2021

rosstex1 said:
i have a question i hope someone can answer. i bought one of the d75 step vans and copart has apparently lost the keys. Best i can find the steering column is Daewoo Avia d series and looks to share the ignition key and lock cylinder with an Isuzu NPR. since there is little info out there and i havent found any kind of key number for the van, i amhoping someone has had to deal with this and can help me out. i am going to pull the column apart next weekend. hopefully it is something i can pick up pretty easily. Thanks in Advance for any info!

Take the cover off of the dash. Look for a keyed connector, possibly even with a key. Start there. 99% sure you will find something.

BigChief

· #45 · Aug 18, 2021 (Edited)

rosstex1 said:
i have a question i hope someone can answer. i bought one of the d75 step vans and copart has apparently lost the keys. Best i can find the steering column is Daewoo Avia d series and looks to share the ignition key and lock cylinder with an Isuzu NPR. since there is little info out there and i havent found any kind of key number for the van, i amhoping someone has had to deal with this and can help me out. i am going to pull the column apart next weekend. hopefully it is something i can pick up pretty easily. Thanks in Advance for any info!

My box truck version uses the same plain metal key for the door and the ignition. If yours is like that and it almost certainly is, then you can have any competent locksmith take apart the door cylinder and reverse engineer a key from that. There are mobile automotive locksmith vans where they carry equipment for that. Ask for a quote but it shouldn't be more than $100 for the locksmith's time and trouble. Fancy keys with RFID chips in them are expensive but this key is just a hunk of steel which is a nice change of pace for typical 2010-2012 vehicles. You might as well make several copies of the new key, I had it done at the local hardware store for $2 each.

It is a X236 (HY14) key blank.

rosstex1

· #46 · Aug 22, 2021

well i have another question. i have started to get my d75 back to life and i dont have any of the RFID fobs, wristbands or master cards. has anyoine else messed with this setup? since only the back door is keyed, it would be nice to utilize the keyless entry and start features plus without an rfid devce registered to the van, everytime the back door is opened, the alarm goes off. . i iam still waiting for the drive batteries to charge but every thng ekse seems to be respondung as it should. i anm just not sure if i can get the items needed to proigram new RFID tags or keyless remote to the van. it looks like it is proprietary to FedEx. the red arm band, new black band and master card. i am waiting to hear back from utilimaster or touchtroics but wanted tosee if anyoneelse has had luck in this area.

BigChief

· #47 · Aug 28, 2021

I figured out what people were talking about with the battery groups. The trick is to criss-cross my hands as I'm going down the battery pack to read all 26 series because the the polarities flip-flop/zig-zag. Conveniently all 8 of the modules in a battery tub have the tab-side facing outwards, so as long as you can use a forklift or engine hoist to lift the pack out of the plastic tub, you can remove the plastic lids and manually check all voltages without dissembling the pack further.

I did find the cells that Smith was reporting as 4mv, but according to my multimeter they are actually 547mv. I'm using a lab DC power supply to try charging it up to 3.3v like the rest of the pack, to see what will happen. That should be fine as long as I keep an eye on it? It seems to top out at 30 watts and right now it's only charging at 5.

What would cause a single cell group to fall so far below the rest of the pack anyway? I can't imagine anything besides some actual physical damage.

Also, when removing the battery pack from the tub, I notice there's no resistive heating unit in the pack. How was anyone buying these Smith Newtons supposed to charge them when they're out in below freezing weather? Was it just wishful thinking that they would never make it out of California? It wouldn't have been expensive to add, effectively a rubber electric blanket wrapped around the pack could bring the temp up while plugged into a charger before the charging begins.

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brian_

· #48 · Aug 28, 2021

BigChief said:
The trick is to criss-cross my hands as I'm going down the battery pack to read all 26 series because the the polarities flip-flop/zig-zag.

Or just expect that the measured polarity will alternate between positive and negative as you go down the pack and the cell directions alternate.

BigChief said:
Also, when removing the battery pack from the tub, I notice there's no resistive heating unit in the pack. How was anyone buying these Smith Newtons supposed to charge them when they're out in below freezing weather? Was it just wishful thinking that they would never make it out of California? It wouldn't have been expensive to add, effectively a rubber electric blanket wrapped around the pack could bring the temp up while plugged into a charger before the charging begins.

Battery heating is (or at least initially was) optional on the Nissan Leaf, too. Lots of EVs, and especially local-use commercial vehicles, never leave the region in which they are first purchased.

A wrap-around heating blanket wouldn't be the optimal configuration. Modules of stacked pouch cells like this should be heated or cooled from one or more of the faces which are against the edges of the cells... if the electrical connections are on top, that means the bottom and long sides are suitable. A heated tray is the easiest way. Any heating system will only work well if the cells are connected to the heated edge by metal fins, as are used in most modules of this style that are designed for active cooling (e.g. the LG Chem modules in the Chevrolet Bolt and Chrysler Pacifica PHEV).

BigChief

· #49 · Sep 9, 2021

5

After a lot of work, I finally got all of the cells in the packs jumped above 2.5v.

The thing is, I manually took Pack 1 out of the truck, swapped a module out and charged the low cells to be close to the rest of the battery. When I put it back and charged the truck from AC it charged that whole battery to full and eventually balanced it.

Pack 2 on the other hand, I simply "jumped" the pack voltage up. The low cells went all the way up to 3.0v and the highest cells went up to 3.2v, which should be fine.

From there I tried to put the truck back on the AC charger. When I do so however, something is weird. When I fixed Pack 1 it was willing to charge both batteries in it, but this time around it refuses to seemingly turn on the charger for Pack 2. I'm not sure if I've actually ever seen Charger #2 turn on though. The circuit breaker panel does show that Charger #2 is energized when I plug in the J1172:

Font Triangle Display device Parallel Electric blue

Font Electronic device Musical instrument accessory Circle Audio equipment

Pack 2 before jumping:

Colorfulness Font Screenshot Parallel Technology

Pack 2 after jumping:

Colorfulness Rectangle Font Screenshot Parallel

System is giving Yellow "caution" flags about the voltage difference between cells, but the documentation says Yellow shouldn't be enough to stop things from functioning? Maybe Yellow is enough to disallow Chager #2 as a failsafe? I'm not sure:

Rectangle Font Screenshot Technology Parallel

I'm getting pretty close to fixing this thing! Any ideas?

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BigChief

· #50 · Sep 16, 2021

2

Let me pose some simpler questions to narrow this down, if anyone is still around

Two things that have me stumped are that I've never seen charging indicated on battery tub #2, and that the two strings in #2 have been showing as very low SOC percentages this whole time, even though the pack voltages are quite high.

Has anyone ever seen "Charger 2" on this screen to be active? From what I've read, the truck has two chargers, but they are both contained inside the single charger box. I'm not sure if this app considers that to all be "Charger 1", or if there is indeed a Charger 2 and it is inactive for some reason. The circuit breaker box shows a green light for Charger 02 so I'm not sure what else the issue could be:

Colorfulness Product Font Rectangle Screenshot

As shown below, the SOC levels on SBS3 and SBS4 are 5% and 20% respectively, yet the minimum/average cell voltages are plenty high because I jumped the packs. What dictates the SOC? Is the battery management system storing some colomb-counting values in memory, so that it becomes confused if I manually jump a pack? That's my best guess:

Product Rectangle Font Screenshot Software

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cricketo

· #51 · Sep 21, 2021

I want one of these vans

Reactions: 1

ITubego Youtube

· #52 · Sep 21, 2021

Solarrx said:
I recently bought at auction a 2012 Smith Electric D75 ex FedEx step van. I am desperately looking for an owner’s/shop manual for it. None seems to exist! It would also be great to find someone close enough to come by and check it out. I live in Anaheim, CA. I have not been able to even start It as of yet, but I used the charger cable from my 2013 RAV4 EV and it seems to have charged up. Can anyone out there help me?

The key should be on the top of the dash if you remove the cover! How did it go? A wiring diagram or manual could also be helpful to me since I bought one.

BigChief

· #53 · Sep 22, 2021

cricketo said:
I want one of these vans

Sadly there were tons of them that people bought cheap and ripped apart to resell the batteries on eBay. I can't imagine there's more than 50 on the road at this point. Luckily there's lots of electric Class 6 trucks that are the same size and capability, but they are all 2020/2021 models from BYD, Peterbilt, Lion etc and I can only imagine that brand new they'd all run over $200,000. I've tried to get quotes to check and most people won't give me the time of day, even though owning this Smith makes me an official trucker!

If anyone else has gotten quotes for the more modern electric class 6 trucks, please share them here.

The only one I managed an actual quote on was the Kenworth K270E. They wanted over $370,000 and that's not a typo.

Reactions: 1

brian_

· #54 · Sep 23, 2021

BigChief said:
Luckily there's lots of electric Class 6 trucks that are the same size and capability, but they are all 2020/2021 models from BYD, Peterbilt, Lion etc and I can only imagine that brand new they'd all run over $200,000.
...

The only one I managed an actual quote on was the Kenworth K270E. They wanted over $370,000 and that's not a typo.

I suppose that shouldn't be surprising. Battery-electric transit buses cost much more than double the price of a comparable diesel variant of the same model of bus... so the big ones with long range batteries are well over a million dollars.

dsbajwa11

· #55 · Oct 4, 2021

jgilly69 said:
I was given a nice gift related to these trucks and vans! Please message me and I will try to hook anyone up with a smith van or truck.

hi I just bought one too. Stuck on the smith logo. Need any help I could get.

cricketo

· #56 · Oct 5, 2021

dsbajwa11 said:
hi I just bought one too. Stuck on the smith logo. Need any help I could get.

Where did you find one ?

BigChief

· #57 · Oct 5, 2021

dsbajwa11 said:
hi I just bought one too. Stuck on the smith logo. Need any help I could get.

Is this a 2010-era with Valence Batteries or a 2012-era with A123 batteries?

If it is the 2012 with A123 batteries, the most important thing you'll need is a PCAN USB adapter so that you see what's going on with the individual battery levels. The official adapter is $225 and it is called the "IPEH-002021", but I found a knockoff for $55. I bought two of the knockoff and can confirm they both work fine, but the power cuts out on one of them if I wiggle the USB. For the price difference, I'm not complaining. Here's the link anyway, they ship from China so it might take a few weeks: 55.8US $ |Replace PEAK PCAN USB IPEH 002021 IPEH 002022 PCAN View|Contactors| - AliExpress

If any individual battery cells are below 2.5v, the entire truck will refuse to drive or charge. To bring up the voltage I know three methods, with varying levels of danger and expense.

dsbajwa11

· #58 · Oct 6, 2021

BigChief said:
Is this a 2010-era with Valence Batteries or a 2012-era with A123 batteries?

If it is the 2012 with A123 batteries, the most important thing you'll need is a PCAN USB adapter so that you see what's going on with the individual battery levels. The official adapter is $225 and it is called the "IPEH-002021", but I found a knockoff for $55. I bought two of the knockoff and can confirm they both work fine, but the power cuts out on one of them if I wiggle the USB. For the price difference, I'm not complaining. Here's the link anyway, they ship from China so it might take a few weeks: 55.8US $ |Replace PEAK PCAN USB IPEH 002021 IPEH 002022 PCAN View|Contactors| - AliExpress

If any individual battery cells are below 2.5v, the entire truck will refuse to drive or charge. To bring up the voltage I know three methods, with varying levels of danger and expense.

What are the options to charge them up. U willing to sell me one of the connectors alibaba is saying deliver by nov 2

BigChief

· #59 · Oct 8, 2021

dsbajwa11 said:
What are the options to charge them up. U willing to sell me one of the connectors alibaba is saying deliver by nov 2

Sure, I'll sell you one for what I paid, I sent you a message.

Reactions: 1

rosstex1

· #60 · Dec 25, 2021

Solarrx said:
I recently bought at auction a 2012 Smith Electric D75 ex FedEx step van. I am desperately looking for an owner’s/shop manual for it. None seems to exist! It would also be great to find someone close enough to come by and check it out. I live in Anaheim, CA. I have not been able to even start It as of yet, but I used the charger cable from my 2013 RAV4 EV and it seems to have charged up. Can anyone out there help me?

did you ever find anytihg on your van? we got one of these too9 and it took a month or so but it is alive and running. if you still have yours and need any assistance, i am in long beach.

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