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Ad hominem signals your defeat.
Solar panels to EV charging
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Right, you use any old EVSE but limit the power it has available.
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5,843 Posts
@cricketo - you can cowboy all you want but what you are suggesting makes the EV an integral part of the stationary offgrid system.
Being over 48V, that means it becomes part of the installation inspection and has to meet code. A plugin EV is not subject to inspection that stops at the electrical socket because it's an appliance and not part of the system.
Being over 48V, that means it becomes part of the installation inspection and has to meet code. A plugin EV is not subject to inspection that stops at the electrical socket because it's an appliance and not part of the system.
I really fail to see the logic you're applying. If it's not hard-wired, then it's not an integral part. Would a vehicle integrated via CHAdeMO be an integral part too ?
I didn't say your claims are wrong because you're dumb. I said I can't seem to get my point across to you, and there is no benefit for me to keep trying. The fact you're misusing "ad hominem" signals something else.
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That's not how an EVSE works. You can't limit the available power. If you only "allow" it with 500 watts the car/EVSE is still going to take whatever it's going to do. Or if there really is only 500 watts available, something is going to fail or fault out.
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I already addressed that.
A dedicated DC charger, like your Chademo offboard charger, is an approved device that's hardwired and its installation has to be signed off. A 50 amp AC socket is an approved device. An EVSE is an approved device. A Tesla wall box is an approved device. All set a limit on what current the car can ask for and are aware of the circuit limits to which they are wired.
These devices demark the power system from the plugin appliance. An EV or welder is an appliance.
A storage battery for an offgrid system is integral to that system by design. That needs approvals, PE signoffs, etc. The fact you put wheels on it changes nothing if your offgrid power system doesn't work without it. You can't extend the system without approvals unless there's a demarcation device there.
And if you say you can disconnect it -- that means of connection and disconnection has to be signed off because of the voltages involved. There's no Chademo box that got signed off -- you using an Arduino to do Chademo signaling into a stationary offgrid high voltage system would get you a red flag from the county. No different than adding a branch circuit. That EV is a branch circuit, not an appliance, in your scheme.
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The EVSE limits the current to the car. My Bolt EV is limited to 12 amps. My Flo is limited to 32 Amps. My Tesla wall "charger" is limited as well. If the car asks for more current, the EVSE sends this to the car: 🖕 and negotiates the max the EVSE is set to allow.
Tesla got clever and incorporated identification in its plugs and varies that limitation.
I didn't readily find any NEC requirements supporting that description. Like NEC doesn't call out CHAdeMO by name. NEC also doesn't significantly limit PV voltages (used to be 600VDC max, now I think 1000VDC is max). Please share if you've seen them.
And off-grid system doesn't require a battery. There are solar inverters that will operate with variable output and without a battery. If you absolutely must, you can have the system approved with one of those. Then hook up to DC path after the fact
And that's usually the thing - NEC doesn't normally prescribe / regulate system design or intent. NEC is concerned with individual design components and certain safety features. Meeting those requirements should be possible in any configuration. Like having a high voltage DC outlet for ANY number of reasons should be permissible if the outlet, wiring, fusing, disconnects are all up to sniff.
Finally, NEC applies only to permanently installed systems, whether rooftop or freestanding. So one can mount the stuff on a non-permanent structure like a trailer.
I understand how the EVSE sets current limits using the pilot signal. Not exactly the car asking for more and the EVSE involving birds. It's just the onboard charger respecting the current limit set by the EVSE.
Most EVSE's can't actively adjust charge current to match available solar power. It's just on or off. And even the on/off is normally just a set timer based solely on the clock.
The issue I'm getting to is the adjustment to match available PV or turn off when there isn't enough.
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Easiest to just charge at 1000W.
You're offgrid, which means going into town once every week or two. More than that and...what's the point?
You're offgrid, which means going into town once every week or two. More than that and...what's the point?
A small citation regarding high voltage batteries :
iaeimagazine.org
Energy storage systems–NEC Article 706
iaeimagazine.org
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That's a nice reference - thanks.
However, it does not apply to the pickup truck being used as an offgrid storage element:
"The scope of Article 706 informs Code users that this information applies to all permanently installed energy storage systems."
However, it does not apply to the pickup truck being used as an offgrid storage element:
"The scope of Article 706 informs Code users that this information applies to all permanently installed energy storage systems."
Either way, since this is just mental juggling for most people, I'm done looking into it. My last suggestion stands - make it non-permanent (setup everything on a metal stand that's not anchored to the ground), and you're free to do whatever.
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For what it is worth, I have charged my truck off solar in an off-grid application, and like everything else when it comes to being off grid - you only run big loads when the sun is shining.
I basically just made a custom charge profile for my truck that limits my charger to 700W (the size my shop array could handle) and then would just plug it in whenever there was full sun. I dont even bother with an EVSE, I just spliced a J1772 plug into a extension cord and plug it into my inverter. If there was a brief bit of clouds, the battery bank would pick up the slack.
Oh, and as for permits and such, just dont ask and they wont hassle you unless you get caught. I am going on 9 years of living off the grid, and so far it has been going just fine. I have also heard that if it is mounted on a trailer it becomes a DOT issue, and the county cant really do shit about it. That used to be my fall-back plan, but nobody really seems to care. Dont piss off your neighbors, dont have stuff visible from the road, and you should be fine.
I basically just made a custom charge profile for my truck that limits my charger to 700W (the size my shop array could handle) and then would just plug it in whenever there was full sun. I dont even bother with an EVSE, I just spliced a J1772 plug into a extension cord and plug it into my inverter. If there was a brief bit of clouds, the battery bank would pick up the slack.
Oh, and as for permits and such, just dont ask and they wont hassle you unless you get caught. I am going on 9 years of living off the grid, and so far it has been going just fine. I have also heard that if it is mounted on a trailer it becomes a DOT issue, and the county cant really do shit about it. That used to be my fall-back plan, but nobody really seems to care. Dont piss off your neighbors, dont have stuff visible from the road, and you should be fine.
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I've been charging a bike DC-DC via solar for a few years. I use an 80amp mppt with 2x 100w solar panels and a 36v battery on the bike
Your truck is likely parked 90% of the time, it could be a part of the house's battery bank when plugged into the solar array.
Your truck is likely parked 90% of the time, it could be a part of the house's battery bank when plugged into the solar array.
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Hey Allan, it sounds like you're on the right track with your plan to charge your EV with solar panels. Charging an EV with a DC to DC converter like the Zivan NG3 is definitely a great solution. Have you considered joining an energy social network that focuses on solar panels and EV charging? This can be a great way to connect with other enthusiasts who have experience with similar projects and can share their ideas and knowledge with you. Additionally, you can also research online on how to do it, there are many tutorials and guides available online to help you with the process. Good luck!
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It looks like at least one solar microinverter maker is thinking along these lines. Albeit, a year or two out:
electrek.co
enphase.com
Enphase (ENPH) introduces bi-directional EV charging for an all-in-one solar home energy system
Enphase Energy (ENPH), the world’s leading supplier of microinverter-based solar and battery systems, announced Thursday its latest innovation – a...
Enphase Bidirectional EV Charger | Enphase
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