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Soliton 1 Lets Out Magic Smoke

6458 Views 24 Replies 11 Participants Last post by  Tesseract
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G
Looks more like the motor is dead and not the controller.
I agree with gottdi. I don't see any evidence to support the title of this thread! Maybe it should have been titled Soliton1 forces motor to let out Magic Smoke & fireworks.
Tesseract has already helped this guy so I can assure you that both Solitons are still alive and send their regards. He blew the motor, totally gutted it. It's one of the seven motors mentioned in my signature. :rolleyes:

Btw, the video actually gives all the clues you need to figure out why...
Sigh... I wish the title of this post were different because it was, indeed, the motor that blew up, and when you see the setup you won't be surprised at all why:

21 Optima yellow top batteries (252V nominal)
2 ADC FB-4001 motors, one for each rear wheel (yes, independent)
2 Soliton1 controllers and both are set to 1000A limit.

I don't recall off the top of my head, but I believe the FB-4001 vastly prefer rotating in one direction over the other because the brush contact angle is inclined (like a downhill skier). In this setup, though, one motor has to spend most of its time in revers, and that also happens to be the motor that blew up.

Granted, feeding 1kA to a FB-4001 on a regular basis is bound to destroy it anyway, but the owner had already noticed that even after a gentle break-in period (50 miles at 250A max) the doomed motor's commutator patina looked different, and it didn't sound the same when rotated by hand.

I love it when one of those guys at the starting line ask, "how come it's making no noise?" :D
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Sigh... I wish the title of this post were different because it was, indeed, the motor that blew up, and when you see the setup you won't be surprised at all why:

21 Optima yellow top batteries (252V nominal)
2 ADC FB-4001 motors, one for each rear wheel (yes, independent)
2 Soliton1 controllers and both are set to 1000A limit.

I don't recall off the top of my head, but I believe the FB-4001 vastly prefer rotating in one direction over the other because the brush contact angle is inclined (like a downhill skier). In this setup, though, one motor has to spend most of its time in revers, and that also happens to be the motor that blew up.

Granted, feeding 1kA to a FB-4001 on a regular basis is bound to destroy it anyway, but the owner had already noticed that even after a gentle break-in period (50 miles at 250A max) the doomed motor's commutator patina looked different, and it didn't sound the same when rotated by hand.

I love it when one of those guys at the starting line ask, "how come it's making no noise?" :D
I have an FB1-4001a in my Civic, so it rotates backwards, but I had to adjust the brush timing then use a brush stone to realign the brushes to the Honda way. Then I spent about 8 hours running 12 volts and 20 AMPs through it to get the brushed broken in. And this was a used motor that had the first 3,000 miles of it's life in a S10 running CCW, then I got and spent the past 2,600 miles running CW with no ill effects. The commutator is nice and shiny too.

Oh, and yes using a single FB1-4001a and a Z1k-LV @ 96 volts 1000 AMPs I was able to destroy a little Civic Automatic transmission. I was probably at 1,000 AMPs for maybe 1-2 seconds. Next EV is gonna be a stick so I can drag race in true MA style.
For the record, no Solitons were harmed during the filming of this feature. They were, however, used to torture some tires and slag a motor.

In the motor's defense, it had issues from the beginning. The race just finished it. The other motor shrugged it off and continues to work just fine.

As for the title, I was just stirring the pot! :D

I would recommend the EVenetics Soliton 1 to anyone interested in a solid product. They were worth every penny!

Steve Green
Hi. How about asking the moderator to change the subject? Something like "Soliton1 lets out the MOTOR magic smoke" would be more accurate. These guys have worked very hard on their design and the subject is a tad misleading.

How do they keep those switches safe in the presence of a catastrophic motor collapse like that is true art. I bet they're doing cycle-by-cycle monitoring on everything that produces current.

JR
How do they keep those switches safe in the presence of a catastrophic motor collapse like that is true art. I bet they're doing cycle-by-cycle monitoring on everything that produces current.
Almost. :D

This is a graph from a motor (not this one) being zorched:



As you can see the Soliton desperately tries to keep the current under control, but it doesn't quite manage since the zorch is rather unpredictable. You can also see how the pulse width drops to about half, which means that the zorch makes the resistance in the motor drop drastically. But of course, it's more or less a short circuit so that's to be expected.

The graph is from this thread.
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What's more magic than tire smoke? The Solitons produced great quantities of it! :D

As for the motors. I was assured by ADC when I purchased them that they worked equally well rotating either direction. The motors are neutrally timed. The brush boxes are symmetric about the armature, I checked them with a straight edge and they line up perfectly between opposite pairs. And the wear pattern on the brushes are centered on the faces. They both pulled equally in testing. Yes the motor zorched big time, but I have yet to find any evidence that rotating it CW was the cause.

Steve Green
Maybe it was because they are neutrally timed. I thought that with those high voltages you needed to advance the timing or the motor would be toast at higher RPMs.
Did AvDC know it was for 150V?
... I was assured by ADC when I purchased them that they worked equally well rotating either direction. The motors are neutrally timed. ...
The boiler plate on the FB-4001 motor says 120 volts. ADC officially disavows use at higher voltages.

The Solitons were set to limit the voltage seen by the motors to 150 volts. I've heard from multiple sources that voltage should not have killed the motor (ADC was not one of them),

The long and the short of it is the motor was iffy, I leaned on it, it puked. That's racing.:p

Steve Green
I'm especially curious about the significance of brush angle as I have a couple of Prestolite 7 inch motors I was thinking of running in opposite directions (driving front wheels independently). These also have brushes that are set at an angle. I thought this was just a way to increase brush contact area and that it was OK to run the motors in either direction (they seem to be neutrally timed). The only problem I could think of is if the commutator surface was uneven, the brushes might dig in or bounce if they were pointing against the direction of rotation. I'd be grateful if anyone can shed any more light on why the brushes are set at an angle or whether this limits the direction of rotation.
After consulting with motor guru Jim Husted, we've arrived at the conclusion that the motors were not neutrally timed as I was told by ADC. They were set in the advanced position for running CCW. So the motor running CW was running retarded. Cumulative damage to the com lead to the dead behavior and final zorching at the race.

Steve Green
How to toast a motor. Take one Soliton1, a string of batteries say 270V worth or so, a motor with the timing retarded, cable it all up and give it a good zap. Poof! Don't forget to tell Qer so he can update his signature line ;)
How to toast a motor. Take one Soliton1, a string of batteries say 270V worth or so, a motor with the timing retarded, cable it all up and give it a good zap. Poof! Don't forget to tell Qer so he can update his signature line ;)
:D

So far I only know of 7 motors, I wonder how many I've missed... :rolleyes:
More video of the carnage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX7diDd5slQ

Wish it were better, but it's all I got!

;)

Steve Green
More video of the carnage:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KX7diDd5slQ

Wish it were better, but it's all I got!

;)

Steve Green
Damn, my morse code is too rusty to figure out what it transmits. I bet there's a hidden message in that video...
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