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Actually, the courts have ruled consistently that leaving your valuables unsecured constitutes negligence, and that folks who help themselves to your open vault are simply the beneficiaries of "abandoned money."
So if you forget to lock your front door and your house is robbed, the robbers aren't the criminals? That's just insane. If the courts rule the way you describe that tells you what's wrong with the court system.
Why do you keep trying to excuse criminal negligence on the part of our elected crime lords?
I never said the government is blameless, but I still maintain the ultimate responsibility is with the individual. Again, no one forced people to make stupid financial decisions. Besides, who are you going to put in jail, all Congressmen and presidents of the last 20 years or so? It's ridiculous.
 

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So if you forget to lock your front door and your house is robbed, the robbers aren't the criminals? That's just insane. If the courts rule the way you describe that tells you what's wrong with the court system.
Couldn't agree more.

I never said the government is blameless, but I still maintain the ultimate responsibility is with the individual.
Under "normal" circumstances, I would agree with you and laugh at their stupidity. However, these were not normal circumstances.

Again, no one forced people to make stupid financial decisions. Besides, who are you going to put in jail, all Congressmen and presidents of the last 20 years or so?
You are on the right track. Possibly most of them, certainly some of them. It is called "Fraud," and anything over $10,000 is a Federal felony.

I think that 300,000,000 million counts of felony Fraud should be sufficient.

:D
 

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I'm so confused by your response to JRP3's example.

If someone steals a car because the keys are in it, they can be prosecuted for stealing a car. If someone steals something out of my unlocked house... the courts don't side with the thief.

Are you saying that this is or is not the way it is? And what are the ramifications of this example regarding personal responsibility and the gov't?

Leaving your house unlocked to be pilfered is a stupid personal move. I'm pretty sure you can blame the thief for stealing your stuff, and yourself for allowing it to be more easily done.

Couldn't agree more.

:D
 

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I'm so confused by your response to JRP3's example.

If someone steals a car because the keys are in it, they can be prosecuted for stealing a car. If someone steals something out of my unlocked house... the courts don't side with the thief.

Are you saying that this is or is not the way it is? And what are the ramifications of this example regarding personal responsibility and the gov't?
The example of someone taking things left unprotected was more commentary on how pathetic our legal system has become, as well as the concept of shared responsibility. However the example of the swimming pool / drowning death is a good example of the responsibility specifically of a property owner to foresee and guard against the expected stupidity of others. The second was meant an illustration of the principle, and how the government has been guilty of massive fraud by forcing the lending institutions provide credit to those unworthy all the while telling the American people that the economy was "just fine" and "not in any danger."

Leaving your house unlocked to be pilfered is a stupid personal move. I'm pretty sure you can blame the thief for stealing your stuff, and yourself for allowing it to be more easily done.
Yep - I lock my car even in my garage.

:D
 

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Move to Texas, you can shoot the burglar robbing your neighbors house with no questions asked.
 

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Or even better move to a place with low population density and low crime rate where you can leave your keys in the ignition of your unlocked car in your driveway and not worry about a thing. :D That way you avoid shooting your neighbor's relatives by mistake ;)
Well where I live in Tx takes a sniper riffle scope to see your neighbor's burglar. The state is kind of big.
 

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Or even better move to a place with low population density and low crime rate where you can leave your keys in the ignition of your unlocked car in your driveway and not worry about a thing. :D That way you avoid shooting your neighbor's relatives by mistake ;)
Is it EVER a mistake to shoot your neighbor's relative?

:p
 

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I came here on my path to researching EV conversions. I have found pluginmotors.com for my 2006 Mustang. I just bought a second 2006 and thought about doing this to my higher mileage one. I've owned over 30 Mustangs and various hot rods.

But this topic struck home. I've been pretty accurate in making several calls. I bought IP, Ford, AXL, DAN and a couple others that all turned out to be 6 baggers before I sold out. I just sold all my IRA's and moved my 401K around to what I think will conserve most of it.

The biggest question I see here by Jan is what caused the GLOBAL IMPACT we are facing right now. I can tell you it wasn't HOUSING. That was just a symptom.

See, the first thing about currency is you must realize it's just a symbol. And the second thing is that a symbol never represents itself. In the US our currency is made of cotton. Not gold. The third thing is that the symbol represents your LABOR. It's a RESERVE NOTE. It proves YOU worked to produce something tangible for trade and is HOLDING YOUR LABOR in RESERVE.

So what caused the GLOBAL CRASH? After you sort out cause and effect and apply a little game theory it's easy to see.

First you must answer. What are the GLOBAL INDICATORS?

Try this. Walk around your house and examine it's contents. Also walk out to your car.

What is it made of? Distillates and Steel.
Where did it come from? Mostly China. (Refer to above, Lack of American labor and demand)

The Big Three are not GM, Ford and Chrysler. They are more like, Dow Chemical, DuPont, BASF and Alcoa.

Why? What are distillates? In a word, OIL.

So why blame oil instead of housing bubble?

Everything you touch is made of distillates. Minus tires your typical modern Mustang contains 500lbs of them. Your 65 Mustang about 50lbs. Your cell phone and that keyboard you are banging on. We didn't have this dependency in the 1930's.

So when you quadruple the INPUT costs to produce distillates and you have already MASSIVELY exposed all your LABOR against credit debt you get a CRASH.

Suddenly people are not buying $4 coffee at Starbucks and buying 50" Plasma TV's, - look at a chart for Circuit City and Starbucks during 2008. They can't afford the minimum payment on their credit card anymore and their house note because now they are filling up their SUV with $97 instead of $35.

Something had to give. Oh why GLOBAL IMPACT? Look above, where is your STUFF MADE? China.

So what is the answer? Well what do you do when something comes in and sucks up all your currency and locks up your commerce and trade movements? You flood the market with more currency.

Do any of you know how money is created? See, you can't just THINK UP GOLD but you can currency. For every $100 loaned out there is $8 on deposit.

Scroll down to "Banks create the money they lend.

http://www.webofdebt.com/articles/creditcrunch.php

But now the FED is secretly sucking it up again.... And fast.

Roy you nailed it!

Also try www.dailyjobcuts.com www.mybudget360.com www.bankimplode.com

http://globaleconomicanalysis.blogspot.com/2010/02/americans-reject-keynesian-economics-83.html

My guess is the CRE market and sovereign debt is about to collapse somewhere and hard! Gold and oil is about to tank. Get out while you can. We are about to see another 700-1200 point drop in the DOW over the next few weeks. Already 700points since the peak after the new year. Somewhere in the next spread is a trigger.

Good luck!
 

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A good read on PIGS (Sovereign Debt problems)

http://seekingalpha.com/article/187051-think-the-pigs-are-in-trouble-these-7-u-s-states-could-be-heading-for-something-worse?source=email

Also, don't get caught up in the hype of recovery. Regardless of what the media and your govt says you have two indicators to follow the truth with.

BDI and Distillates. Below is a link for the BDI and we have over a 50 day supply of Distillates. When the "crash" began we had a 30 day supply.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/cbuilder?ticker1=BDIY%3AIND

So what is BDI? Let me simplify. If it is produced it is shipped. Products must move. Click on the link above and look at the 1y, 3y, and 5 year boxes. Scary isn't it. Nothing is moving! Is it being built?

Here is an example:

Suppose your 4 year old is taking a bath. It's been 30 minutes and you yell back, are you finished yet? Yes, I'm almost finished! 20 more minutes go by and you are growing impatient. Are you finished yet? Yes, I'm finished, just drying off!

Meanwhile you went to the basement and had already turned off the main valve to the water supply 50 minutes ago.

Are you following? Regardless of the voice coming from the bathroom you know there was no bathing going on. No one clean will emerge from the doorway.

Why? Because you know the water supply (distillates weren't flowing, and BDI wasn't deliverying - water pump). So a bath (RECOVERY) won't take place until the valve turns back on.

Nothing moves by magic. That 50" plasma, new set of tires, new iphone, or credit card manufacturing (plastic) won't get to your shelves without LABOR.

Those screaming massive inflation are about to get educated. You can't charge $1000 for a loaf of bread in the USA. The only what that will be possible is if we have a natural disaster that changes our ability to grow crops.

The good thing is Americans will be losing weight and working with their hands for a change. Just look at this website and youtube. Hundreds of thousands are creating EV's and various other means of transportation. We have junkyards loaded with resources that simply didn't exist even in the best of times during the 1930's.

Things will get better and quickly once we flush out some of this horrible debt and break our OIL dependency. Distillates are switching to renewable resources as well and joining our fuels sources.

My guess is Algae fuels will be the game changer. More than 15K gallons per acre per year verses 420 gallons per acre of ethanol per year from 1% the water usage as corn needs. It can also be grown in areas outside of our precious farm acreage. Also consumes Co2! We will have gasoline but it will be mostly renewable sourced. We are getting it from tree farms as well. Right now we are harvesting a tree that grows in two year cycles!!

The next 20 years will go down in history as the period we got away from oil. It will be as significant as the microchip has been to our industry and way of life.

Want investment advice? Look at how many technologies the typical cell phone has displaced. Camera, phone, answering machine, fax, media players. In fact, within a few years most car audio systems will simply contain a docking port for your cell, SD or USB port. There will be no radio. Your cell will provide those resources. You can get internet radio now, for free, just about anywhere. CD will go away like the 8 track and cassette player. Your home computer will consist of a docking station. Your screen will be the living room 50" plasma and a remote keyboard will be by your recliner. The "computer" will reside in your cell phone.

Did you realize the typical iphone is like comparing a 2003 computer to a laptop from the 1995 time frame? Apps at the touch of an icon. 8gb or 16gb of storage? Holy cow!

I just got back from a 4 day trip that we do twice a year for our son to Cincinnati Children's. My wife asked, did you forget to bring your laptop? I said no. I pulled out my iphone. We used the GPS software on it too!
 

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BDI and Distillates. Below is a link for the BDI and we have over a 50 day supply of Distillates. When the "crash" began we had a 30 day supply.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/cbuilder?ticker1=BDIY:IND

So what is BDI? Let me simplify. If it is produced it is shipped. Products must move. Click on the link above and look at the 1y, 3y, and 5 year boxes. Scary isn't it. Nothing is moving! Is it being built?
Not sure I follow, it looks as if BDI is around 2006 levels. I'd think the 2008 levels were aberrations and not sustainable.
 

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Oil does affect a significant amount of the global economy. However, just for a level set we should remind ourselves that the price of a gallon of gasoline has varied very little (adjusted for inflation) since the 1960's. When you consider how much demand has risen, that is actually a DE-flationary impact.

Don't give up on the United States thinking "everything is from China." The U.S. still remains the world's largest exporter.

Also, while gold itself may vary some in the coming days as a short term investment, precious metals in general will undoubtedly continue to climb over the longer term.

As for Fed notes, the ratio is probably closer to $10 on deposit for $150 (15:1 rather than 12:1). They lie about that, too, because some of the things they call "deposits" are actually securitized B.S.
 

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Not sure I follow, it looks as if BDI is around 2006 levels. I'd think the 2008 levels were aberrations and not sustainable.
Maybe this can help a little.
http://www.wikinvest.com/index/Baltic_Dry_Index_-_BDI_(BALDRY)

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-the-baltic-dry-index-will-collapse-again-over-the-next-2-years-2010-1

One thing about the 2006 levels. With everything else the US was well into the false foundations it had established with credit. Buying and consuming everything on credit and just after a massive bankruptcy spike in 2005 as well. They turned their homes into credit cards. Leveraging every possible ounce of equity.

It didnt take much of a nudge to collapse things. All you had to do is consume enough disposable income to tip the scales. OIL running to $147 was a spike but that was a runaway train that left the station well before 2005.

A friend of mine from England told me the US needed a dose of reality. He said they were paying over $8 a gallon and had been paying much more than us for years. I said OK, following your logic lets do the math.

The US went from 1.24-1.40 a gallon to $4 from 2002 to 2008. Just 6 years. That's about a 300% increase.

For the sake of argument lets adjust England down to $6 and hit it with the same $300% increase, also, take away govt subsidized health insurance because for $4 a gallon we don't get it either. That's $18 a gallon. Fork it over.

He shut up.

The US economy isn't calibrated for $4 a gallon. The global economy depends heavily on ours for consumption of their "JUNK". Since everything from that shampoo bottle, shower unit, heater casing to your computer contains distillates, what happens when you quadruple the costs of distillates?

It's not just transportation dependence on oil.

"Don't give up on the United States thinking "everything is from China." The U.S. still remains the world's largest exporter."

Walk into Walmart or Target and examine the labels on the country of origin. You will find very little made in the US. I would bet less than 2% of the inventory is US sourced.

What are we exporting and to who? Or, looking at it another way, why is it not balancing the tables?
 

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Well lets see, over 70% of hard "recyclables" go overseas thats one useless export (that likely costs rather than pays)

We export a large percentage of our oil for god knows what reason, oh yeah, we don't process most of it. Exxon valsleeze would have never happened if we would just man up and process our own oil.

We export a fair amount of our raw materials but why I cannot answer.
except...
China bought a large percentage of our copper and aluminum to monetize some of our debt with them, surprize. This year is rumors of platinum being bought out of our market by china.

We export a fair amount of farm products, my uncle prefered to sell his beef to overseas buyers.

We also export a fair amount of components that get assembled and sold back to us at a loss (for us anyway) Never could figure that one out, slick way to avoid your company having a profit within the US though.

In other words we really don't export as much as is on our books, I know I apparently work for one of the companies.

Maybe this can help a little.
http://www.wikinvest.com/index/Baltic_Dry_Index_-_BDI_(BALDRY)

http://www.businessinsider.com/why-the-baltic-dry-index-will-collapse-again-over-the-next-2-years-2010-1

One thing about the 2006 levels. With everything else the US was well into the false foundations it had established with credit. Buying and consuming everything on credit and just after a massive bankruptcy spike in 2005 as well. They turned their homes into credit cards. Leveraging every possible ounce of equity.

It didnt take much of a nudge to collapse things. All you had to do is consume enough disposable income to tip the scales. OIL running to $147 was a spike but that was a runaway train that left the station well before 2005.

A friend of mine from England told me the US needed a dose of reality. He said they were paying over $8 a gallon and had been paying much more than us for years. I said OK, following your logic lets do the math.

The US went from 1.24-1.40 a gallon to $4 from 2002 to 2008. Just 6 years. That's about a 300% increase.

For the sake of argument lets adjust England down to $6 and hit it with the same $300% increase, also, take away govt subsidized health insurance because for $4 a gallon we don't get it either. That's $18 a gallon. Fork it over.

He shut up.

The US economy isn't calibrated for $4 a gallon. The global economy depends heavily on ours for consumption of their "JUNK". Since everything from that shampoo bottle, shower unit, heater casing to your computer contains distillates, what happens when you quadruple the costs of distillates?

It's not just transportation dependence on oil.

"Don't give up on the United States thinking "everything is from China." The U.S. still remains the world's largest exporter."

Walk into Walmart or Target and examine the labels on the country of origin. You will find very little made in the US. I would bet less than 2% of the inventory is US sourced.

What are we exporting and to who? Or, looking at it another way, why is it not balancing the tables?
 

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Oil does affect a significant amount of the global economy. However, just for a level set we should remind ourselves that the price of a gallon of gasoline has varied very little (adjusted for inflation) since the 1960's. When you consider how much demand has risen, that is actually a DE-flationary impact.

Don't give up on the United States thinking "everything is from China." The U.S. still remains the world's largest exporter.

Also, while gold itself may vary some in the coming days as a short term investment, precious metals in general will undoubtedly continue to climb over the longer term.

As for Fed notes, the ratio is probably closer to $10 on deposit for $150 (15:1 rather than 12:1). They lie about that, too, because some of the things they call "deposits" are actually securitized B.S.

Looks like we are a solid THIRD or FOURTH place depending on who you ask.


https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/rankorder/2078rank.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_exports


This was a 2005 prediction. Looks like it happened.

http://www.oecd.org/document/29/0,3343,en_2649_201185_35363023_1_1_1_1,00.html


And then there is this
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/business/news/china-overtakes-germany-to-become-largest-exporter-1864052.html




Rank
country Exports Date of Information 1 European Union
$ 1,952,000,000,000​
2007 est.​
2 China
$ 1,194,000,000,000​
2009 est.​
3 Germany
$ 1,187,000,000,000​
2009 est.​
4 United States
$ 994,700,000,000​
2009 est.​
 

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<snip>
It didnt take much of a nudge to collapse things. All you had to do is consume enough disposable income to tip the scales. OIL running to $147 was a spike but that was a runaway train that left the station well before 2005.

A friend of mine from England told me the US needed a dose of reality. He said they were paying over $8 a gallon and had been paying much more than us for years. I said OK, following your logic lets do the math.

The US went from 1.24-1.40 a gallon to $4 from 2002 to 2008. Just 6 years. That's about a 300% increase.

For the sake of argument lets adjust England down to $6 and hit it with the same $300% increase, also, take away govt subsidized health insurance because for $4 a gallon we don't get it either. That's $18 a gallon. Fork it over.
This is not a very good illustration. Firstly, gasoline ran about $1/gallon in the U.S. in the 1970's, so starting your illustration with an aberrant low and ending with an unusual high prompted by war is simply showing the level of volatility of the market. Second, a tripling of the underlying price of a barrel of oil would not have the effect you describe in Europe, where the insane prices are due not to the price of oil but to a per-gallon tax. Using the illustration above, the "real" price of gas at $1.20/gallon pump price in the U.S. is about $0.80 ($0.40/gallon in taxes). That means that when gas was $6/gallon in England it was really probably about $1/gallon (they import 100%, so I'll bump it a bit from the U.S.) with $5/gallon in taxes. Triple that, and the price would be $8/gallon - not $18/gallon as you imply.

"Don't give up on the United States thinking "everything is from China." The U.S. still remains the world's largest exporter."

Walk into Walmart or Target and examine the labels on the country of origin. You will find very little made in the US. I would bet less than 2% of the inventory is US sourced.

What are we exporting and to who? Or, looking at it another way, why is it not balancing the tables?
The fact that we are not big in clothing manufacture is irrelevant - we are still the largest net exporter. The trade deficit is due to the fact that we consume even more than we export - we are living beyond our means. The trade imbalance is revealed in the National Debt and other "hidden" debt.

If the government would let our dollar devalue to a more realistic level, we would turn more often to Domestic products and simply consume less net. The trade would balance itself - much to the agony of the rest of the world.

Another way to fix our trade imbalance would be to pass the FairTax, which would make American goods and services more competitive and load imports with the same burden of taxation as domestic goods when competing in our country. The paradigm shift still not fully realized is that it is the MARKET, not the PRODUCER, which rules economically.
 

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This is not a very good illustration. Firstly, gasoline ran about $1/gallon in the U.S. in the 1970's, so starting your illustration with an aberrant low and ending with an unusual high prompted by war is simply showing the level of volatility of the market. Second, a tripling of the underlying price of a barrel of oil would not have the effect you describe in Europe, where the insane prices are due not to the price of oil but to a per-gallon tax. Using the illustration above, the "real" price of gas at $1.20/gallon pump price in the U.S. is about $0.80 ($0.40/gallon in taxes). That means that when gas was $6/gallon in England it was really probably about $1/gallon (they import 100%, so I'll bump it a bit from the U.S.) with $5/gallon in taxes. Triple that, and the price would be $8/gallon - not $18/gallon as you imply.

The fact that we are not big in clothing manufacture is irrelevant - we are still the largest net exporter. The trade deficit is due to the fact that we consume even more than we export - we are living beyond our means. The trade imbalance is revealed in the National Debt and other "hidden" debt.

If the government would let our dollar devalue to a more realistic level, we would turn more often to Domestic products and simply consume less net. The trade would balance itself - much to the agony of the rest of the world.

Another way to fix our trade imbalance would be to pass the FairTax, which would make American goods and services more competitive and load imports with the same burden of taxation as domestic goods when competing in our country. The paradigm shift still not fully realized is that it is the MARKET, not the PRODUCER, which rules economically.
First, burn down the clothing dept argument. We tried very hard to buy American during the holidays. It was nearly impossible. I did manage to get a set of glasses for our table (which was also new and made in China) that were US Made. Our entire new bedroom suit was made in China. Kids bikes. Trailer tail light repair kit. You name it. I would honestly love for you to create a list of USA products you can find in Walmart, Target, or Dollar General. If you get over 1% inventory you'll impress me. If you get over 5% I'll need oxygen.

Second gasoline went over $1.50 due to the hurricanes in 2005. Not war. The war was well under way by then and had little impact on gasoline unless you consider .20 cents an "impact". But relatively speaking .20 cents is nothing. Speculation ramped up oil through 2008. Not war.

You pretty much made my point for me

"Second, a tripling of the underlying price of a barrel of oil would not have the effect you describe in Europe, where the insane prices are due not to the price of oil but to a per-gallon tax."

Exactly. I already covered that their insane prices are TAXES, hence the govt subsidized health insurance. Nothing at all to do with the REAL price of gasoline. However, my point was, AMERICANS were sucked dry and got NOTHING for the difference. It was not a tax here in the US. If the SAME 300% increase were added on top of the taxes you would get $18 a gallon.

Now if you are saying remove the tax, then apply the 300%, then add back the taxes I could see your point. However the scope was to increase both input costs regardless by the same 300%. No economy can sustain that in so short a time period.

The only way it can is to pour the taxes back into our pockets through free health insurance, electricity, food or new furniture. Something has to give.

As it was, the credit bubble gave.

Oh and even during the Gulf War gasoline in my area only went up about .40 cents a gallon. A lot at the time. $1.24 to $1.65. But in 2005 it spiked when the hurricanes hit and the days of $1.30-1.50 a gallon seemed to be over until the crash of 2008.

Also, so many people bashing Clinton, then Bush, then Obama. Frankly I don't care for any of them. I was sort of pulling for this hot chick and some old fart was on the ticket. What ever Clinton started Bush didn't correct and Obama isn't doing much better yet but let's give the man a full run at it and then come back with the blame. Unless he pulls a rabbit out of his hat I won't expect much.

Not that I'm pro Palin but I mean hey, while you are driving me to armageddon you might as well be easier on the eyes. Ya know?
 

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Hey! Wait a minute!
I know what we export!

All the oil from the Alaskan Pipe Line! :D:D:D

As for President bashing........Presidents don't pass legislation.......Senators & Congressmen do. Those are the people we should be criticizing. We need term limits! Too many Dynasties for both Republican & Democrats.

Outlaw PAC money!
And throw the Bums Out!
 
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