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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Sorry if this product has been raised before, i searched and nothing came up.
Kilowattlabs Sirius Supercapacitor storage "battery "
Several of the other forums ..Solar, EV, tech , etc...are having some debates over the Sirius product which claims to be the first Supercapacitor based storage device for use with Solar systems, utility storage, EVs, RVs etc etc
They claim it can replace any current Lead ,AGM, or Lithium, battery function.
Infact the list of claims are extensive, not least being rapid charge/discharge, 99% efficiency, million cycle life with no capacity reduction, totally fire safe (non combustable materials) , and $1/Wh price point.
http://www.ultraflexgroup.com/en/ca...capacitors-energy-storage-systems.html?lang=2
Note they are initially offering 3.5kWh and 7.1 kWh , units with other sizes and voltages to follow.
Obviously if any of this is true, then storage has truely advanced instantly, but as many of us realise, these claims go beyond any current proven Supercap performance abilities.....hence why there is hot discussion raging.
Some of you may already be involved in those discussions on other forums , but my reason for raising it here is to rais awareness to either help prove/disprove the validity of this device such that we either can avoid it or benefit from its technology.
 
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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
There is a video on this page with the Australian distributor.
Half way through he talks about the Supercap pack and even shows what he claims is one of the supercaps used.
He also mentions that the "cell" capacity will double and triple in the next versions !...which implies a big improvement in the energy density. (Which is already beyond current known supercap levels ?)
Note also the claims of fire safety, and 45 yr design life !
http://www.cleanenergy.org.au/renew...arvios-super-capacitor-energy-storage-system/
 
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Discussion Starter · #8 · (Edited)
This post was just put up on the Aussie EV forum site, in reply to many requests for information and proof that this is not just a disguised Lithium pack.
The author is Paul Wilson of Arvio the importer of the Sirius battery in Au
Post by Supercaps » Today, 18:26

Start by reading the patent that was published yesterday. Just for clarification there is no in series dc to dc conversion and no electrochemical cells despite Richo’s determined effort. We fly these units on planes regularly at 40 x the allowable Wh limit of lithium ion electrochemical batteries. There is no riddle. No trick. Always open to a visit at our business from anyone who is curious about how it’s done, and yes you can see inside it. Over 100 systems are being installed over the coming months. Many of them will be on line for all to see.
Click to expand...
 
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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
.....the latest post from P Wilson (Arvio)
There are 1200 x 3,000F super capacitors. 2.7V each. 20 in series and 30 in parallel per layer x 2 layers.
Click to expand...
Note also in his previous post, he claim that they are airfreighting these Sirius units , so someone must have signed a legal declaration to confirm there is no significant lithium ion content in the device. .
Do the FAA physically check to confirm the declaration, before allowing freight to fly ?
But if its not true...someone will go to jail eventually !

Bottom line is, they are claiming to have a 3000F supercap the size of an 18650 cell !. :eek:
.....how likely is that ?
.....
 
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Discussion Starter · #18 · (Edited)
Tony Bogs said:
I don't see the smoking gun.

And it is a cap, so discharging is a linear proces, unlike chemical storage. Not a direct drop-in replacement for Li-ion in an EV.
Click to expand...
Thats the point,... They claim it IS a drop in replacement for any 48v battery.
Its normal operating range being 44-54 volts.
They even have a demo vodeo of the unit powering a industrial electric fork truck.
https://youtu.be/Rm69TFxicfM
Note they also have smaller versions designed as direct replacements for 12v and 24v applications.... (car and truck lead acid replacements)
 
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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
Minor point Brian, but he didnt say there was no dc/dc conversion......he actually said there is no "in series". dc/dc conversion !
Now that may be nothing ,..or it may distract from the fact that there could be some cell level conversion trickery,.
That previous photo with the blue supercap bank showed a lot of cell level electronics.
With regards to the voltage range, a typical 48v lithium pack (13 S of 18650s ), would typically have a full capacity range of 39-55volts ( 3v - 4.2v per cell) .


This reminded me of a previous "ultracap" discussion...
Anybody remember the "fastcharge" 1000 hp drag bike thread ?..
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=178345&highlight=1000+drag+bike
What happened to that project ?... Their blog is gone and the site is "dusty"
 
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Discussion Starter · #23 · (Edited)
...".And the latest reply from Arvio commenting on the Patent " battery" reference... ????????
Post by Supercaps » Today, 17:22

Yes the patent covers this. Patents are normally written as broadly as possible to prevent copying methods by other parties. This is why the words “in some embodiments” and “can” are used. There are no lithium ion electrochemical cells in the super capacitor modules which are being used. Good to see you doing your research. Have you worked out how it’s done yet?...
Click to expand...
Suggesting the patent is bit of commercial deception ?
 
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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
OK,.. More feedback from Arvio..
Post by Supercaps » Today, 01:45

Just to clarify a few things. The super capacitor in the picture is one of the range of super capacitors, not the one in the 3.55kWh unit. Secondly the calculations are correct except for the micro farad typo. The missing piece of the calculations is understanding of the technique used to extract almost all of the energy from the capacitors from 54VDC down to 44Vdc when in series without a series DC to DC converter. Yes there are electronics involved. The electronics perform high speed balancing between the parallel cell groups. This is the IP of the product. You can learn about this by reading the patent. The real test is at the terminals, which can easily be shown to deliver the energy stated. The unit can be shown opened up to anyone interested in person to have no electrochemical batteries and proven with a colomb meter to be what is stated. Still haven’t had anyone from this thread come to visit. Doors are always open. Nothing to hide......
Click to expand...
 
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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
Tony Bogs said:
Not graphene this time but a superelectrolyte and stainless steel with a special sauce:

http://www.greencarcongress.com/2018/03/20180319-rr.html

Could be the next one with 180Wh/kg.
.
Click to expand...
Remember... Whilst they are "exploring the potential"...the Kilowattlabs guys claim they already have supercaps with 2-3 times the energy density of the units in the Sirius device !....
....which would put them in the 300Wh/kg range ,...if true.
 
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Discussion Starter · #38 ·
OR...if they really have figured out how to get most of the energy out (8.5% remaining). Whilst holding the pack voltage minimum at 44v , then it only needs to go up to 55.5v (2.77 per cap) to hold the full 3.55 kWh. ???

So we are back to the issue that They would have to use some form of voltage boost that is not dc/dc as we understand it ?
 
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Discussion Starter · #40 · (Edited)
The guys on the AEVA forum have the most likely explanation ..
http://huahuienergy.m.manufacturer....ttery/1152403017/Lithium-Titanate-Battery.htm
LTO cells , 18650 size, 1.8 - 2.75 voltage range , 1.3 Ah capacity (3.1Wh)
Looks like the vague pictures we have seen from Arvio and fits with the 20s, 60p, pack size they have confirmed.
But it does call a lie on their claim of "No lithium electrochemical cells "

But the Arvio guy (Paul Wilson) is obviously totally convinced that he is dealing with Supercaps !
He goes into some detail in this latest video.. ..from about 8mins in
https://youtu.be/fdI1ZpRhUkI
 
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Discussion Starter · #49 · (Edited)
Paul W at Arvio has now posted a video of what he claims is a "recharge test of a 3000F supercapacitor"...
https://youtu.be/m_hyyQ5-d0E
It shows one of their devices charging from 0v to 2.7 v in approx 30 secs drawing something between 15 and 10 amps (cannot see the meter )
Which would suggest he has charged approx 0.3 Wh into that device !
But that implies to me that it is not a 3000F cap is in use there ?
Its going to need a lot more than 15 amps to charge a 3000F cap in 30 secs!!
 
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Discussion Starter · #61 ·
But the basics remain..
There is no known capacitor device that can give this capacity , in this size , or at this weight...let alone cost.
ALL the data and evidence still confirms that this is using LTO cells..
...just as those new "supercapacitor rechargeable" AA cells are also !
Its all on the AEVA forum
 
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