[Duncan]

So a 30 kWh battery would weigh 261 kg... so this isn't a leap forward in energy density by mass

I heard 75 kg for a 3.5 kwh unit so 640 kg for 30 kwh

Not impressive for batteries - but for supercaps that is about 50 times better than existing units

I have contacted them and I got

Hello Duncan
We are excited about this product but we don’t have all of the pricing and specifications through yet. I will let you know when we do.
Regards
Jason

When I do hear back I will pass it on

These are roughly 1000th the price of existing supercaps - I hope it's not just somebody getting his number wrong

 

[Duncan]

Hi Karter

They have a module - but I'm not sure what they expect those tests to show - they are not testing the supercaps - just the electronics that control the caps

I would be much more interested if they took the lid off to have a look inside

The total power capacity would be interesting as well - but at the loads it's designed for NOT a short

At least it shows that the units do exist and are not total vapourware

Still no update from the salesman who promised me some specs

 

[Duncan]

75 kg - and it contains 1200 off 3000F capacitors
(if the 75 kg I remember was right)
That gives 62.5 gms/capacitor

Less than that

In the video he was claiming that their "secret source" was to do with - enabling slow charging and re-charging
And
having the capacitors all balance properly

Those were the improvements that their company had made

I could be wrong but I don't see either one as an actual problem

The key features to me are the energy/kg and the energy/dollar

And then we get to Brians point - about the voltage change

I really really want to see inside one of these boxes

 

[Duncan]

Wonderful!
In the first video they did mention batteries - but it was something about the supercaps not being able to retain charge for a long time so the batteries somehow fixed that

The core of this is still the super cheap super small supercaps

I do hope that they actually do exist

I wonder - maybe the 3.6 kWh on the box is the actual storage capacity - BUT with it configured as a battery you can only use 1.2 kWh

Which would tie in with lead acid batteries where you can only use a fraction of the capacity
Or even Lithium where you can only use 80%

 

[Duncan]

All of the electronic bits - the patents and the "secret sauce" are almost besides the point

To me the point is the 200:1 reduction in weight and the 1000:1 reduction in costs

 

[Duncan]

Interesting
So 8.5% at 44v and 95% at 53v

Just don't see how you do that with Supercaps unless you set the "zero" at 40v
So if 2.7v is full then "zero" would be 1.9 volts

Maybe that is how they do it - it's actually a 12 kWh pack and they are only using the top 3.5 kWhs

 

[Duncan]

I think that it is much more likely that they are only using the top 1.2kWh and that the 3.5kWh is a true but irrelevant capacity

Either way those capacitors (if it's all true) represent several orders of magnitude improvement in price and in density

Lets say that they do work - and the cost is what it would appear
With some additional electronics to actually squeeze the energy out (DC-DC) they are almost at the power density to put in a car - with effectively infinite life

So carry twice as much battery weight - but your batteries last forever

Or for use in power storage where the weight is not important but the ability to be cranked up and down three times a day - 1000 cycles per year - 40,000 cycles across a 40 year life could well be vital

If these things actually exist at those prices this is a game changer

 

[Duncan]

Why would a company use lithium cells and claim that they were supercaps?

Horribly I do think that is more likely than the huge cost and weight reductions

But I can't think of any reason for them to do that

 

[Duncan]

I saw all that
But I still don't see how a company could hope to make any money doing this

If they have a huge demand - then people will open them up and see that they have been lied to

I just don't see how a company could hope to make money by selling something that is plainly not what they said it was

With current demand and their pricing they could sell a lot - I think that they are undercutting the Tesla product - as batteries

So why claim it's something its not and open yourself up to all sorts of legal issues?

 

[Duncan]

Hi Weber

But you can tell from the voltage charge curve for a supercap - the slope on that curve is equal to the capacitance

We have been told the capacitance -
if these are batteries then they will have an effective capacitance of about four times that

So isolating one "capacitor" and doing a voltage/current curve will show what is happenning

I would LOVE it to be the supercap breakthrough!
But I think it's much more likely to be as you say

 

[Duncan]

A 3000 Farad capacitor charged to 2.7 volts will require 8100 Coulombs

Which is 8100 Amp seconds

So if it took 30 seconds then it would average 270 amps

 

[Duncan]

Just watched the video

He has an average of 5.5 amps for 15 minutes - 900 seconds - 4950 coulombs

Not the full 8100 coulombs - but the way he "averaged" it looked a bit suss

 

[Duncan]

Just boosting this back up - anybody got any updates?

 

[Duncan]

Good point so if it was 1.9v to 2.7v

That would be 3.61 to 7.29

So the 3.55kWh pack would actually be a 7 kWh pack that they were only using 3.55 kWh

 

[Duncan]

Evidence is clear they're LTOs, nothing to see here.

You are probably right but I'm still struggling with why a company would try and sell something that was not what they say it was

A one off sale? - sure con men are everywhere

But a mass produced article where they would need to sell thousands just to cover the initial costs?

 

[Duncan]

Just bumping this thread as they have started selling these here in NZ - the 3.55 kWh unit is about $4K so I don't think I'm going to buy one just to pull it apart

But any more news from Australia where they are a year ahead of us