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I got them from Elite Power Solutions in Pheonix AZ for a nice $9731.88. Had I not opted for Pay-Pal and gone with a wire transfer to some foriegn bank something or other, I could have had free shipping (-$371.88), but I like the Pay-Pal piece of mind.
So you ordered some of those GBS cells? They look interesting. Are they the cells with terminals at opposite ends? The 100Ah cell terminals are similar to TS and CALB but with a possibly better way to attach cabling to the terminals.
 

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The GBH cells are interesting but having the terminals at opposite ends looks as if it would cause some real packaging issues in most cases.
I agree. I can only picture mounting them with the terminals on the sides and that would mean a high stack or a long row of them. If you mount them upright, one of the terminals is buried and unreachable. Maybe I'm missing something but it doesn't seem they thought that through. Perhaps its intended for lower volt pack arrangements.

JR
 

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Discussion Starter · #45 ·
So you ordered some of those GBS cells? They look interesting. Are they the cells....
According to the pretty picture and e-mail discussions, they are the normal looking Thundersky's. (I'm not sure what a GBS cell is, but I'm going to find out...)
 

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According to the pretty picture and e-mail discussions, they are the normal looking Thundersky's. (I'm not sure what a GBS cell is, but I'm going to find out...)
Previouly, when I looked on Elite's site, I didn't find TS under batteries, just the blue GBS cells. Just now I found TS cells under their packages. Did you buy a cell/BMS package, or did you negotiate a separate deal for your 45 cells?
 

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I agree. I can only picture mounting them with the terminals on the sides and that would mean a high stack or a long row of them. If you mount them upright, one of the terminals is buried and unreachable. Maybe I'm missing something but it doesn't seem they thought that through.
JR
I think the opposite end terminal format allows the current/chemical reaction to occur across the entire length of the plates instead of electrons taking the shortest path across the top of the plates when both terminals are at the same end causing more heating at the top of the cell. Also, it would be pretty hard to cause an accidental short by dropping metallic objects on top of the cells.

The long flat format might fit my application better, or other applications where the cells could be mounted under back seats, trunk floors or vacated fuel tank spaces.
 

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I think the opposite end terminal format allows the current/chemical reaction to occur across the entire length of the plates instead of electrons taking the shortest path across the top of the plates when both terminals are at the same end causing more heating at the top of the cell. Also, it would be pretty hard to cause an accidental short by dropping metallic objects on top of the cells
Yes, the theory of that sounds interesting. There will be a minute delta in resistance along the length of the anode. I suppose the part closest to the terminal will see slightly more current flow than the bottom of the cell.

For long or high spaces this setup would work. You'd still need access to the sides so it's the width of the battery plus space to stick and arm in there and reach the endmost terminal. While it is more difficult to cause an accidental short in this type of setup, because we string them together in series, the potential for that is still there.

From Jack's EVTV video, he showed a cell emptying out completely out of electrolyte because they rest on their side. I think upright cells would "burp" but not necessarily spill out in those extreme cases. Do I remember correctly that Jack said it was 4 cells to each package (~12V)?

I like the terminals though. Having 4 screws on each terminal is a bear to assemble but it's not going anywhere once in place.

Not to take your thread too far off course, F16bmathis, but will your BMS take any action like discharging overcharged cells or bypassing charge current, etc? Personally, I don't see much of a point is spending time and money installing a BMS that tells you a cell is off but doesn't do anything about it. I read over quickly the link you sent above and that BMS does seem to action some, does it?

JR
 

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Discussion Starter · #50 ·
Yes, the theory of that sounds...and that BMS does seem to action some, does it?

JR
I'm being told it does, so I hope thats true. If it doesn't, I'll be posting that all over here so no-one else has to spend over a grand to find out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #51 ·
I'm being told by my wife that there's a huge pallet with a load of batteries waiting for me. I think I'm coming down with something... I should go home.
 

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Yeah, you don't look so good. I hear there's a week-long flu going around. I may catch it too soon after placing my order...

JR
 

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Nice to get batteries so quick! wow....
 

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Previouly, when I looked on Elite's site...quote]

I bought the batteries without a BMS. I'm looking at http://www.evequipmentsupply.com/page47.html right now. He says it is a BMS and monitor. The site really didn't menmtion the BMS side of things all that well. I like the display functions.

I thought this was the BMS part of it?
CELL EQUALIZER: Every cell needs one Equalizer. There are four different equalizers dependant on the amount of balancing current that the equalizer has to shunt.

Now the only question is... Will it balance on the bottom of the pack? My BMS does but I don't know who made it for sure.
 

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Discussion Starter · #56 ·
Well, I did pay ElitePower Solutions almost $1000 more for getting them quick.
Opened the boxes, they came in packs of 4 with the end plates installed more copper buss bars than needed and all the nuts and bolts.

I'm trying to charge the pack in series with a 5 amp charger that doesn't seem to have a 3.4V setting. I put it in automatic, which shows about 3.7V, but it only charges for an hour (with one battery) before it shuts off. Guy at the4 hobby store seemed to be a battery kind of guy, and said it would work fine, so I'm going with it.

The pack will easily fit where the 6V Trojans used to be, but the bed frame may short out a row or two, so I'll have to work that out.
 

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Well, I did pay ElitePower Solutions almost $1000 more for getting them quick.
Opened the boxes, they came in packs of 4 with the end plates installed more copper buss bars than needed and all the nuts and bolts.
Excellent! But wait, was that $1K above the $9.7K you had previously quoted? Or did they include the hardware without the extra pay?

I'm trying to charge the pack in series with a 5 amp charger that doesn't seem to have a 3.4V setting. I put it in automatic, which shows about 3.7V, but it only charges for an hour (with one battery) before it shuts off. Guy at the4 hobby store seemed to be a battery kind of guy, and said it would work fine, so I'm going with it.
Hmm. I'm not following this. You're saying charging the pack in series but then talk about 3.4V which is for 1 cell. Or do you mean serially one at a time after the other? At any rate, if your 5A charger is displaying 3.7V - and assuming your cell came charged to 50% - then you're not putting enough current through. It would seem your cables are too thin/long or there's significant loss in the charger<>cell connection. Have you measured the voltage at the cell terminals?

JR
 

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Discussion Starter · #58 ·
Excellent! But wait, was that $1K above the $9.7K you had previously quoted? Or did they include the hardware without the extra pay?

Hmm. I'm not following this. You're saying charging the pack in series... Have you measured the voltage at the cell terminals?

JR
See thats why I'm not an engineer. I meant Parallel. I ran the charger all night, it charged for just over 6 hrs before shutting off.

The $1K was included in the $9700 price. Had I wanted to wait I could've got them for $8800.
 

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How's this project coming along? I'm interested in the newest TS cells now.

Did you get the newest ones?

Did you get a closely matched set?

Early on I was turned off by TS cells because of higher internal resistance = higher heat generation = wasted power on heating batteries.

I'm searching hard for ir of TS cells. Hi Power is <2mo, Calb is <1. TS used to be like 3. Doesn't sound like much but it is triple the Calb thus triple the wasted power! That's one reason I'm going away from lead!

To recharge my pack of US2200XC lead, nearly 20% of the input power at 28 amps is in the form of heat if my reasoning is correct. Basically my recharge last night wasted enough power to increase the 1500lb pack temperature 5 degrees F. That equates to about 2.1kw! All after only traveling 11 miles.
 

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I don't know what the internal resistance is but it must be low on the newer TS cells. I have the small 60 ah cells and have pulled up to 5C (300 amps) from them. My pack stays over 116 volts (over 2.9 vpc on my 40 cell pack.) The Zilla controller is programmed to 600 motor amps but only 300 battery amps so I have some hang time at 5C (seconds at a time.)
 
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