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Average Joe
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FYI - Users may find it more convenient if you were to upload the photos using the attachments feature. That will generate thumbnails and allow for more photos on individual posts. Just look for the paperclip when creating a post.
 

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There's some places where you can lose quite a bit more weight, if you want maximum performance. The front clip is the factory Gen II Camaro subframe, meaning this is a back-halved car. The problem is that front clip is about 200-300lbs too heavy for what it offers in a drag car.

Weld in an Alston front clip, and chop the rest of the steel cowl and firewall out (replace it with aluminum). That's the link to a 2x3-inch clip that can run on the street. If it's all all-drag, and baby's-bottom smooth street, car you can use the round-tube clip to lighten it even more.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
Okay, will use that option next time. :rolleyes:

FYI - Users may find it more convenient if you were to upload the photos using the attachments feature. That will generate thumbnails and allow for more photos on individual posts. Just look for the paperclip when creating a post.
 

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Discussion Starter #5
Yes, I agree we thought of chopping the front factory clip and installing a Alston front clip. We decided (because we bought it already welded) that we will use lighter front control arms. We will trim more of the front body off. We are installing an aluminum firewall etc...everything will be aluminum. The seat "bracket" will be welded to the frame and the aluminum seat bolted to the bracket, this is a must with aluminum flooring. The battery case will be aluminum also. The side and back windows will be flexi. I tell you the car is very light the way it is. When completed I will get a weight at our local scale, I predict below 2500lbs.

There's some places where you can lose quite a bit more weight, if you want maximum performance. The front clip is the factory Gen II Camaro subframe, meaning this is a back-halved car. The problem is that front clip is about 200-300lbs too heavy for what it offers in a drag car.

Weld in an Alston front clip, and chop the rest of the steel cowl and firewall out (replace it with aluminum). That's the link to a 2x3-inch clip that can run on the street. If it's all all-drag, and baby's-bottom smooth street, car you can use the round-tube clip to lighten it even more.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
The rear already has 4:11 gears, I must test this ratio with our two Netgain 11" motors, they are not HV motors so rpm's are limited. Might have to switch to 3:73 if we top out before the end of the 1/4 mile. Much testing to do, will have a fun 2011 season racing this baby. :D
 

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...decided (because we bought it already welded) that we will use lighter front control arms...
Not really a big deal, just wanted to point it out. I had a 2nd gen that I was building for handling, so I kept the factory front clip. I did some fiberglass work for a guy building a 2nd gen drag car that also had the factory subframe. He did the tubular arms, etc, and kicked himself in the end because he didn't lose much weight, but spent almost as much money as the whole clip would have been. Since the whole car is already set up it's really pretty simple to cut that clip out and weld the Alston clip in place of it. That's a 1-2 day job for a good chassis shop. The weight is in the frame and spindles, not so much in the arms.

You're probably going to need a (numerically) lower gear ratio for sure, if you have the battery pack to get there. What's the diameter of the rear tires? It usually takes a 32-33" to fill up a 2nd gen rear half. Looks like that's what they are.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Todd,

I have just viewed your website, very impressive. I also grew up in the "Muscle Care Era" and now have dedicated my future to bring my children into the "EV ERA of Muscle Cars". LOL. It sounds funny, but if someone told me 15 years ago I would be building EV Race cars I would have laughed at them. Shows how the future is changing everyday (or I'm just getting older). :eek:

There's some places where you can lose quite a bit more weight, if you want maximum performance. The front clip is the factory Gen II Camaro subframe, meaning this is a back-halved car. The problem is that front clip is about 200-300lbs too heavy for what it offers in a drag car.

Weld in an Alston front clip, and chop the rest of the steel cowl and firewall out (replace it with aluminum). That's the link to a 2x3-inch clip that can run on the street. If it's all all-drag, and baby's-bottom smooth street, car you can use the round-tube clip to lighten it even more.
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I will race it as is, will get good times hopefully. The whole nose will be carbon fiber, fenders and hood so saving plenty of weight there. Have you ever lifted a stock "metal" 1981 Camaro fender, very heavy. With direct drive less a trans and an aluminum flywheel she will be light enough. Maybe the next dragster I will go all out full tube chassis. This one I am rushing to complete before our shows and season opens.

Not really a big deal, just wanted to point it out. I had a 2nd gen that I was building for handling, so I kept the factory front clip. I did some fiberglass work for a guy building a 2nd gen drag car that also had the factory subframe. He did the tubular arms, etc, and kicked himself in the end because he didn't lose much weight, but spent almost as much money as the whole clip would have been. Since the whole car is already set up it's really pretty simple to cut that clip out and weld the Alston clip in place of it. That's a 1-2 day job for a good chassis shop. The weight is in the frame and spindles, not so much in the arms.

You're probably going to need a (numerically) lower gear ratio for sure, if you have the battery pack to get there. What's the diameter of the rear tires? It usually takes a 32-33" to fill up a 2nd gen rear half. Looks like that's what they are.
 

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...I have just viewed your website, very impressive...
Thanks. I'm kind of hiding in plain sight. I had a shop but closed the business and sold it. Trying to figure out where I want to go next.

I'm having fun with electric, but I'm not a true save-the-planet, convert-the-world, type. I just like how clean looking the powertrain can be, and the torque.


As I said, the front clip isn't really a big deal. I just didn't know if you were aware of it, and wanted to point it out in case you end up looking to lose a couple hundred pounds. It can actually be done any time, even in the middle of the season - if the shop is good.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Thanks for your info. Its funny where we all stand on the EV issue. Some are very liberal and think of saving the planet. Some are electrical engineers and love this new era, and some are like me, bored with ICE and want to try something new. I also hate buying oil from our enemies, and think EV use is better for National Security. I am no liberal trying to save the world, just an independent trying to have fun and weed America off foreign oil. :D

Thanks. I'm kind of hiding in plain sight. I had a shop but closed the business and sold it. Trying to figure out where I want to go next.

I'm having fun with electric, but I'm not a true save-the-planet, convert-the-world, type. I just like how clean the powertrain can be, and and the torque.


As I said, the front clip isn't really a big deal. I just didn't know if you were aware of it, and wanted to point it out in case you end up looking to lose a couple hundred pounds. It can actually be done any time, even in the middle of the season - if the shop is good.
 

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I edited my post to say clean looking. The electric motor in my street rod gives me a very compact (with lithium cells) powertrain, without traditional cooling, intake, and exhaust, systems to plumb.

I'm far from bored with ICE though. My heart still skips a beat, my pulse quickens, and an involuntary smile splits my face every time I hear a sexy ICE slinging C02 into the atmosphere! :p
 

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Discussion Starter #13
LOL. I love the thrill of more HP and Torque! If I can receive that from an EV I will be impressed. I have owned over 20 street dragsters in my years. My first was a 1968 Chevelle, my fastest was a 1968 Dart GTS with a 383. One of my wildest was a Chevy Monza custom shortened rear, 327 engine. One of my favorite was my 1970 Duster 340 4 speed Hurst. I starting racing around 1983/84 year. We street raced at night at the end of highways in CT, we drag raced at Englishtown, NJ.

Ready for something new! :cool:

I edited my post to say clean looking. The electric motor in my street rod gives me a very compact (with lithium cells) powertrain, with traditional cooling, intake, and exhaust, systems to plumb.

I'm far from bored with ICE though. My heart still skips a beat, my pulse quickens, and an involuntary smile splits my face every time I hear a sexy ICE slinging C02 into the atmosphere! :p
 

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Discussion Starter #16
Team Lithiumaniacs has hired Bill Scrivener of Scrivener Performance Engineering. He has over 30 years in drag racing experience, he has custom built drag racing chassis for many teams still racing today.

His recommendations for our 1981 Camaro dragster are:

* New fiberglass doors, trunk lid, and one piece nose.
* Custom built motor brackets moving the motors closer to the rear.
* Custom built battery boxes.
* Tube front controll arms (will save 50lbs).
* Two additional rool cage bars.
* New ring and pinion matching the motor and wheels.

etc.....pictures coming on modifications and assembly! :eek:
 

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I'm not claiming to be a drag racing or EV expert, but here's a couple things that jumped to mind:

Since batteries are heavy, and can be put almost anywhere, I wouldn't think you'd need to move the motors, just move the pack back a little more. You can also build an oversized battery box, and move batteries forward or back, fill the empty space with foam or something, to adjust weight balance. Bill Dube ( NEDRA Killacycle record setter) also says the height of the pack is important for tuning.

What ring and pinion is he recommending? On what basis? Why not get some data with the existing gear first? That's something that is just as easily changed after the conversion to electric power.

The NEDRA board ( http://www.NEDRA.com ) would be the best place to ask about these things -- they'll give good advice for free.
Team Lithiumaniacs has hired Bill Scrivener of Scrivener Performance Engineering. He has over 30 years in drag racing experience, he has custom built drag racing chassis for many teams still racing today.

His recommendations for our 1981 Camaro dragster are:

* New fiberglass doors, trunk lid, and one piece nose.
* Custom built motor brackets moving the motors closer to the rear.
* Custom built battery boxes.
* Tube front controll arms (will save 50lbs).
* Two additional rool cage bars.
* New ring and pinion matching the motor and wheels.

etc.....pictures coming on modifications and assembly! :eek:
 

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I'm not claiming to be a drag racing or EV expert, but here's a couple things that jumped to mind:

Since batteries are heavy, and can be put almost anywhere, I wouldn't think you'd need to move the motors, just move the pack back a little more. You can also build an oversized battery box, and move batteries forward or back, fill the empty space with foam or something, to adjust weight balance...
Agreeing with David here. Compared to the weight of a V8 and transmission, your siamese Warp 11s are already removing a significant amount of weight from the front, in effect moving weight back. That's as much as you get from me for free though. :p



...Bill Dube ( NEDRA Killacycle record setter) also says the height of the pack is important for tuning...
It's important on any vehicle, but crucial on a dragbike like Killacycle, because there are two wheels, spaced relatively close together, and a lot of power. Plus, he's on a wrinkle wall, which expands and contracts on and off power. Weight bias, height, CG, etc, are all important though. Cars are just much more forgiving - especially when you bounce off the wall!



...What ring and pinion is he recommending? On what basis? Why not get some data with the existing gear first? That's something that is just as easily changed after the conversion to electric power...
You can ballpark the ratio pretty good with some simple calculations, but will likely have to fine tune (buy more ring and pinion sets) for the last few tenths.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
Thank you gentlemen,

We have a dyno here in Wallingford, CT, not far from the shop. Once the car is complete we will dyno with different gear ratio's to see what works best for our motor/controller/battery set-up. All fabrication and testing should be complete before our first race in March, 2011 in Florida.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
In regards to the placement of the motors and battery boxes, we have figured out the weight balance. The motors will sit 10" rear to where the "stock" front of the ICE sat, this will give better balance and a shorter driveshaft. The battery boxes will be sunk into the frame in the rear and front of the car. Works like magic! ;)
 
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