[Deane]

Searching though this forum on EV news I see the latest news is from 2013. Apparently the original inventors are attempting to bring it back. This time there is far more interest in electric vehicles so it might work. They are taking $100 deposits and have a range of options you can pre-select. According to a Google search result I found, they have over 10,000 deposits as of March 2021 and over 2500 investors. They are not taking any more investors after Dec 31 so jump now if interested. Here is their new website:

Aptera Motors

Aptera is the world’s first Solar Electric Vehicle that requires no charging for most daily use - giving you the freedom to do more with less impact on the planet.

www.aptera.us

Deane

 

[remy_martian]

It's classified as a motorcycle in many places. I'm not so sure how viable they will be.

They definitely need to poop or get off the pot after 8 years of sitting on theirs hands. Seems like they don't know how and that transition is half the battle.

 

[ishiwgao]

It's classified as a motorcycle in many places. I'm not so sure how viable they will be.

why do you think it's not viable when it's classified as a motorcycle?

 

[remy_martian]

It's in that awkward place between overpriced motorcycle and compromised "car"

The imminent Chinese offerings may kill it, much like they killed pricing on everything they all ran to play in (looking at you, solar panels). "Cheaper is better", f*ck margins, staying in business, and R&D reserves. Compromised cars will be compromised, imo.

 

[brian_]

why do you think it's not viable when it's classified as a motorcycle?

The classification as some variation of motorcycle (because of the three wheels), in some jurisdictions, can be problematic: it can require a motorcycle operator's license, and can even require wearing of a helmet, both of which are problems as well as being nonsensical for the vehicle.

There are other real problems, unrelated to classification, such as the awkwardly large size (especially in width) resulting from putting a whole car in a three-wheeled configuration.

 

[brian_]

The Wikipedia article on the current Aptera vehicle reads like an advertisement and omits the long history of failure behind it; the Wikipedia article on Aptera Motors provides some historical context.

Aptera has a YouTube channel which all looks good at first, but it is apparent from the content that they're still in "we built something but the real design which will be so much better is coming when we hire someone with a clue to design it" mode. For instance, the entire suspension design is being thrown away for a fresh start, just months before the things are supposed to be rolling of the production line... yeah, right.

To be fair, it is a serious attempt to find a vehicle design which is highly efficient, although the resulting compromises are also serious.

 

[Deane]

Coincidently I received an end-of-year update email from them today. They say they now have over 150 employees working at 4 sites in S.California and over 15,000 orders have been received. They plan to start production in the 3rd or 4th quarter of 2022. Oh, and they claim no motorcycle license is needed in any state. Lots of detailed pictures of the wheels, motors, wiring, cooling, seating, etc. I think they are going to be able to complete it this time.

 

[remy_martian]

Order reservations or orders? Big difference.

"3rd or 4th quarter" means they're still clueless about production in my book.

If it's not classified as a motorcycle, it's going to need to pass crash and rollover tests, meet lighting requirements, etc. Has/does it?

I'll bet they didn't copyright the email material, or make you sign an NDA, which means you may be able to share the tech details pics, vs beauty shots we can get anywhere, with your buddies here.

They get a free design review, lol.

 

[remy_martian]

From their Class B, nonvoting, shares offering (still active to year end) filing with SEC:

Due to our design, we believe that Aptera Roadster’s range will be greater than 1,000 miles, and will have the following features:

g	Lightweight and low drag
g	0-60 mph in less than 6 seconds
g	3x or more range than other EVs with the same sized battery

Furthermore, solar power will be an integral part of our platform.



Distribution Plan

Aptera's strategy leverages lessons from Tesla

g	Direct-to-consumer sales
g	Online promotion/test-drive scheduling & events in key markets
g	Regional pre-delivery warehousing in leased facility requires little CAPEX
g	Southern California rollout initially with Major Metro Areas soon after
g	Mobile service house calls (a model proven globally by Tesla)

Our Products

When Aptera launches, our first vehicle will have the following features:

·

Size: Overall Length: 172 in. Overall Width: 88.0 in. Overall Height: 57 in.

·

Cargo Capacity: 25 cu. ft. volume

·

Performance:

o

All wheel drive @ 150kw, and as quick a 3.5 sec 0 to 60 mph

o

Front wheel drive @ 100kw, and as quick a 5.5 sec 0 to 60 mph

o

Top speed at 100+ mph, with a limited at 110 mph

·

Safety: Aptera will be tested to exceed all applicable FMVSS and NHTSA standards

·

Range: Offering 4 different options from 250 mile range (25kWh) to ~1000 mile range (100kWhNever Charge Solar array in ~3 square meters/ 700 watts. Self-charges up to 60 kM while simply being parked.

·

Solar:

o

Never Charge Solar array in ~3 square meters/ 700 watts.

o

Self-charges up to 60 kM while simply being parked.

o

Solar can be added to Aptera’s hood and Rear Hatch for up to 24 miles of additional free solar charging per day.

·

Charging: Standard plugs can be used. 110v STD:13 miles/ hour 500 miles/ hour with rapid DC chargers

·

Passengers Seating for 2 Adults + Pet

22

·

Technology Interface Driver Display + 15”Touchscreen

·

Exterior Colors: 3 different options

·

Interior Colors: 3 different options

·

Pricing $25,900 - $46,900+

·

Expected delivery: 2021

·

Premium features:

o

Custom Interior/ Exterior Colors to create an Aptera that’s unique for you.

o

Enhanced Audio gives you an extra 3 channels of audio for sound depth and deeper bass.

o

SafetyPilot makes travel easy with level 2 autonomy capabilities.

o

Safety divider and accessories to secure your pet while driving.

o

Integrated tent and rear awning for camping adventures.

o

Take Aptera off road with more ground clearance and tougher wheel covers.

In addition, we will be introducing two special limited editions:



• Paradigm Edition: built to be the most efficient vehicle on the road with 400 mile range, with:

·

enhanced audio,

·

100kW,

·

full solar,

·

special paradigm interior features, and

·

a target price of $29,900.

• Paradigm +: built to be the most efficient vehicle on the road with 1,000-mile range, with:

·

upgraded audio,

·

100kW,

·

full solar,

·

special paradigm interior features and

·

a target price of $44,900

Environmental Impact



If Aptera produces one million vehicles, we’ll reduce our C02 footprint by seven million tons per year. Each Aptera owner can reduce their carbon footprint by over 14,000 pounds of CO2 per year, what 884 twenty-five-year old pine trees can absorb in a year. If one out of every 20 ICE vehicles on the road were replaced with an Aptera, Americans would save 18 million gallons of gasoline every day or six billion gallons per year (assuming 20mpg ICE vehicle and $3 per gallon gas).



Market Size



We believe our current addressable market is the roadster market which we estimate as 600,000 units per year.





23

Competition



The automotive business is competitive.



We face competition from a variety of automobile manufacturers, many of whom have significantly more resources than we do. These competitors include Tesla, BMW, Toyota, and Rivian. More and more of the traditional automobile manufacturers are devoting more resources to developing hybrid and electric vehicles. As a result of this competition, the company may be unable to acquire significant market share. There can be no assurance that additional capital or other types of financing will be available if needed or that, if available, the terms of such financing will be favorable to the company.

https://www.sec.gov/Archives/edgar/data/1786471/000110465921102955/tm2124741-1_253g2.htm#ss3

 

[remy_martian]

In other words, it's too expensive to be a motorcycle, so they are trying to take on the roadster market. That's the luxury, look at me crowd OR the performance driver. And it'll be in production (if ever) when Tesla Roadster 2.0 is imminent or available 😬

I was an early Atliss offering investor - that stock gets to vote...

Also, no mention of Polaris Slingshot, which I think is their biggest competitor.

The timing of the OP here with the Dec 31 funding deadline is interesting.

 

[ricbarbour]

Hey, on another thread months ago, all I said was that I wanted to buy one. And the forum administrator started screaming "SCAM".

If money was no object what EV would you go for?

Been thinking about this lately too. Want a car that could lap around a racetrack with consistently high performance for 10 minutes without overheating (Time Attack). The attainable OE stuff is SOOO heavy! Starting from a small-ish tube frame car, 3x Model3 PM motors (1 on front axle, 1 for...

www.diyelectriccar.com

 

[Duncan]

The Aptera design is what somebody with a little knowledge thinks a low drag vehicle should look like

Anybody past the novice stage can see that its actually a very inefficient design

 

[remy_martian]

You clearly don't understand the context of the word he used.

He meant they were evading the stringent requirements in being a CAR, yet (continue to) position themselves as one.

They're also not issuing voting stock, which in my mind is a bit questionable because they can vote themselves more stock options while taking in $11M on a series B. If they are hot shit vs milking money, they should have given all investors a voice with the money that was put in, imo.

The pivot to solar appears to be a kneejerk to Lightspeed to appease dumb/smart VC money (I spent a few years pitching them in Si Valley before I realized they fund hype, not viable companies, hence my use of "/").

Time will tell. There will be an EV OEM bloodbath in 2023/24, imo.

 

[rmay635703]

The Aptera design is what somebody with a little knowledge thinks a low drag vehicle should look like

Aptera is very similar to the original generation Honda Insight
And despite a high school style aerodynamics it’s still better overall efficiency than any OEM 2 seater on the market which goes to show that automakers don’t care about aerodynamic efficiency all that much and nearly all seem to be incompetent when it comes to efficiency.

Aptera needs to do lots of “no no’s” due to having a trike layout with 2 up front seating forcing outboard wheels due to our nannying of uneducated drivers for handling

Making seating inline moving the tires under body fascia and adding a lean in for some stability would help but still would be a “driver” issue with a dolphin shaped vehicle.

At the end of the day a three wheeler can be the most efficient vehicle shape but then becomes a handling nightmare for anything approaching normal egress,
4 wheel vehicles can be better on a solely CD basis but will always have a higher CDa due to the excessive size you need to have to follow a proper taper for attached and non-turbulent flow, rear wheels usually need to be narrower track which basically kills handling negating many of the handling benefits

 

[brian_]

·

Size: Overall Length: 172 in. Overall Width: 88.0 in. Overall Height: 57 in.

For comparison, only a couple of big pickup trucks with extra-wide bodywork to cover enormous tires exceed 80 inches in width. A dual-rear-wheel pickup is a bit wider.

·

Safety: Aptera will be tested to exceed all applicable FMVSS and NHTSA standards

Of course there are no body or collision standards for three-wheeled vehicles...

 

[remy_martian]

But there are safety standards for 4 wheel roadsters. Not just applicable ones.

How well did the SmartFor Two do in North America, and how well do large SUV's sell because they are battering Rams (pun intended) in a car accident?

Yeah - there's a width limit where clearance lights are needed, as on my 4 wheel steer GMC, the F-350 dually, and even the Ford Raptor pickup. With the 3 wheels, they might weasel out of it as a FMVSS requirement, but that doesn't lower your chances of getting clipped in the dark.

 

[brian_]

But there are safety standards for 4 wheel roadsters. Not just applicable ones.

I agree - my comment was only about how by going three-wheeled they could legitimately claim to meet all applicable standards, while not meeting any meaningful standards at all.

Yeah - there's a width limit where clearance lights are needed, as on my 4 wheel steer GMC, the F-350 dually, and even the Ford Raptor pickup.

The Quadrasteer - very cool.

With the 3 wheels, they might weasel out of it as a FMVSS requirement, but that doesn't lower your chances of getting clipped in the dark.

It looks like it does, but only if it is considered a motorcycle. Table I is for a list of vehicle types over 80" wide which excludes motorcycles, and Table III applies to narrower vehicles including motorcycles. It would still need suitable lights, but not the three-lamp wide-vehicle identification group, and motorcycles don't need tail lamps or reflectors showing the width of the vehicle at all. Of course only a complete idiot would build an 88" wide trike without lamps and reflectors on the front and back of the front wheel fenders.

The Polaris Slingshot is under 80" wide and has basically normal "car" lighting, including widely spread tail lamps on the wide rear bodywork (which the Aptera doesn't have).

 

[Deep0527]

Order reservations or orders? Big difference.

"3rd or 4th quarter" means they're still clueless about production in my book.

 

[Deane]

The Aptera design is what somebody with a little knowledge thinks a low drag vehicle should look like

Anybody past the novice stage can see that its actually a very inefficient design

Ah, I think you have never studied aerodynamics. Please point out in detail why you think this is not a low drag vehicle!

 

[Duncan]

Ah, I think you have never studied aerodynamics. Please point out in detail why you think this is not a low drag vehicle!

You need to do your own home work
Have a look at actual modern solar racers

A very low drag machine is "streamlined" - this means the "streamlines" meet up
This means that "frontal area" is not important while "wetted area" becomes the most important

The Aptera is an example of a design where the designer does not know this simple fact