The Aptera is back! Maybe.

6749 Views 104 Replies 17 Participants Last post by ricbarbour, 10 d ago

Deane

Discussion Starter · Dec 24, 2021

Searching though this forum on EV news I see the latest news is from 2013. Apparently the original inventors are attempting to bring it back. This time there is far more interest in electric vehicles so it might work. They are taking $100 deposits and have a range of options you can pre-select. According to a Google search result I found, they have over 10,000 deposits as of March 2021 and over 2500 investors. They are not taking any more investors after Dec 31 so jump now if interested. Here is their new website:

www.aptera.us

Aptera Motors

Aptera is the world’s first Solar Electric Vehicle that requires no charging for most daily use - giving you the freedom to do more with less impact on the planet.

www.aptera.us

Deane

61 - 80 of 105 Posts

rcnesneg

· #61 · 9 mo ago

Duncan said:
So its only the same width as a huge American pickup!! not actually wider - BIG DEAL

As far as safety is required the problem is physics mot material engineering
With the Aptera design the passengers are simply "closer to the crash" - so there is less space to "match velocoties"

If you don't like it you're welcome to take your time elsewhere. We will all be happier if you focus on things you like.

Cheers

Duncan

· #62 · 9 mo ago

rcnesneg said:
If you don't like it you're welcome to take your time elsewhere. We will all be happier if you focus on things you like.

Cheers

If it was a case of "you don't like it" then I would accept your comment -
As it IS a case of the Aptera being a SCAM which will make the real EVs look bad then I will continue to carp and critisise

Reactions: 2

dlud

· #63 · 9 mo ago

Well, I for one will not be happier if Duncan and others who are critical of Aptera leave the conversation. I have an open mind about the Aptera and really appreciate both critical and supportive comments. I'm not convinced that it's a scam but also not convinced that this will really make it. So...keep 'em coming from both sides.

Reactions: 1

remy_martian

· #64 · 9 mo ago

The pompom wavers are more than welcome to bring in counterfacts, which is how we learn. Clearly, there are investors and those with financial interests trying to pump up the excitement for the production cash raise.

This place winds up on Google searches. But it also has savvy builders and engineers that drop in.

Mere cheerleading isn't going to cut it after a couple of gory t-bones, or headons where the oncoming vehicle is ramped through the windshield.

All is takes is one zealous lawfirm to rob them into bankruptcy, especially if the company is not forthcoming on, or avoiding, crash testing (I think they should deliberately crash test to car standards to show the risks and the dismal failure - otherwise, they're hiding the risks of their product's operation).

This is NOT a car. It's a sperm-shaped Isetta for safety, IMO.

Reactions: 2

CliffordK

· #65 · 9 mo ago

Hopefully they will publish the Aptera crash test videos.

What I can't figure out is if the car has any kind of a steel skeleton. One of the beta test vehicles shows what looks like a steel roll cage. But, that isn't visible in other vehicles.

They seem to be relying heavily on a composite body structure.

However, most other manufacturers seem to build a steel cage around the occupants including bars across the doors. Likely part of the reason the doors frequently auto-lock when driving.

remy_martian

· #66 · 9 mo ago

The roll cage is on their development test bed. You know - because the car is safe.

What crash test videos? It's not a car.

ishiwgao

· #67 · 9 mo ago

CliffordK said:
Hopefully they will publish the Aptera crash test videos.

I see many comments about crash test videos. Did Aptera announce they will share crash test videos?

My personal opinion: if I were Aptera, I clearly wouldn't say anything about any crash test. I've built it to register as a motorcycle to save development costs, so why bother doing any crash testing then? Just shooting myself in the foot.

Reactions: 2

dlud

· #68 · 9 mo ago

I wonder whether other three wheel ev manufacturers such as Electra Meccanica are doing crash tests. I doubt it just as I doubt Harley Davidson is doing them. As pointed out it's not a car and anyone purchasing one should be made aware of that. Unfortunately a significant share of consumers will assume that this vehicle has passed safety standards for cars.

Reactions: 1

CliffordK

· #69 · 9 mo ago

remy_martian said:
What crash test videos? It's not a car.

ishiwgao said:
I see many comments about crash test videos. Did Aptera announce they will share crash test videos?

My personal opinion: if I were Aptera, I clearly wouldn't say anything about any crash test. I've built it to register as a motorcycle to save development costs, so why bother doing any crash testing then? Just shooting myself in the foot.

They've obviously made some concessions in their design due the DOT and NHTSA. For example they've been fighting about the mirrors for quite some time.

I assume you guys all watched the "Factory Tour" video Post #55 above above before commenting.

Time: 36:35

They say that once they get a final design then they'll build representative samples and slam them against a wall, crush them, and all that stuff... They say probably Q2 of next year they'll share videos. Of course if they are shared by the company, they may choose which videos to release.

At least that is what they said they have planned.

"Motorcycle Licensing" may affect how rigorous of testing is required.

I'm not seeing much info about bumpers. They seem to think the body can withstand some impacts, but there are requirements for bumper height matching. As we know most new cars have gone to a polymer bumper cover over steel and possibly foam supports.

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MattsAwesomeStuff

· #70 · 9 mo ago

I don't think

Duncan said:
As it IS a case of the Aptera being a SCAM which will make the real EVs look bad then I will continue to carp and critisise

Well, come now, it's not a scam. It might be an unwise business decision, but they're clearly actually designing and building these things.

That said, while I'd be a bit defensive towards someone being endlessly shat on for their own build, no one here is from Aptera and, it's a company that doesn't have a great track record. Criticism is part of commentary, this isn't kindergarten. It's a fair discussion to have.

Reactions: 1

CliffordK

· #71 · 9 mo ago

Aptera classifies their vehicle as an "Autocycle" not a "Motorcycle". At least that is what they say.

There have been a couple of bills introduced to Congress with respect to autocycles, but apparently they haven't been passed yet.

www.congress.gov

Text - S.685 - 114th Congress (2015-2016): Autocycle Safety Act

Text for S.685 - 114th Congress (2015-2016): Autocycle Safety Act

www.congress.gov

www.congress.gov

Text - H.R.2381 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): Autocycle Safety Act

Text for H.R.2381 - 115th Congress (2017-2018): Autocycle Safety Act

www.congress.gov

So, many things default back to motorcycle regulations.

However, many states are now recognizing them as being independent from motorcycles, and removing things like helmet requirements for closed cab vehicles. And, potentially differentiating seated vs straddle vehicles.

Over 10 years ago when the first Aptera was in the news I asked my local DMV about license requirements and they seemed to indicate the Aptera would require a motorcycle endorsement on my license. But, there's been a lot of water under the bridge since then.

It looks like the intent behind those bills in congress was to merge motor vehicle safety standards between motorcycles and automobiles where applicable.

Those bills are rather terse (perhaps a reason they weren't passed into law).

I'm surprised we're not seeing Plymouth Prowler style bumpers on the Aptera.

Likely something Aptera would scream bloody murder about.

However, new Autocycle regulations could also put Aptera a year back in their project unless they have already started working on applicable safety standards.

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remy_martian

· #72 · 9 mo ago

Government can't write retroactive regulations. As long as they don't change the "model year", they should be grandfathered.

It still requires a motorcycle endorsement in Oregon. And, likely, a helmet, which will go over like poop in a punchbowl, since everybody thinks it's a car and all the test rides by Youtubers are sans helmet, iirc....an Aptera is indestinguishable from an Arcimoto or a Polaris Slingshot.

CliffordK

· #73 · 9 mo ago

remy_martian said:
Government can't write retroactive regulations. As long as they don't change the "model year", they should be grandfathered.

It still requires a motorcycle endorsement in Oregon. And, likely, a helmet, which will go over like poop in a punchbowl, since everybody thinks it's a car and all the test rides by Youtubers are sans helmet, iirc....an Aptera is indestinguishable from an Arcimoto or a Polaris Slingshot.

The Aptera isn't into production yet, so any legislation passed this year would still apply.

Oregon's motorcycle manual:

https://www.oregon.gov/odot/forms/dmv/6367.pdf

Page 4 (numbered)

Autocycles
Autocycles handle much differently than motorcycles or mopeds. These vehicles
operate more like a car because they are equipped with three wheels, a non-
straddle seat and a manufacturer-installed three-point safety belt or safety
harness.

An autocycle may be operated with any class of driver license. A motorcycle
endorsement is not required. Operators and their passengers must wear a DOT
compliant helmet if the autocycle is NOT enclosed. An enclosed cab is defined as
having a structural upper frame and roof certified by the vehicle manufacturer,
meeting the §49 CFR 571.216a standards. Autocycles may not ride more than
one abreast in a lane "

Now, of course, leaving the regulations up to the states could make a mess. So, if the Aptera has a monocoque design, then it might not be considered to have a structural upper frame.

I've seen what I presume was a rollover BMW i3 with a mix of aluminum and composites. It was just NASTY!!! Hopefully there is an element of a dynamic rollover test.

remy_martian

· #74 · 9 mo ago

Interesting.

So they have to pass this: 49 CFR § 571.216a - Standard No. 216a; Roof crush resistance; Upgraded standard.

hiura

· #75 · 9 mo ago

dlud said:
Well, I for one will not be happier if Duncan and others who are critical of Aptera leave the conversation. I have an open mind about the Aptera and really appreciate both critical and supportive comments. I'm not convinced that it's a scam but also not convinced that this will really make it. So...keep 'em coming from both sides.

Name the most successful 3-wheel 'motorcycle' in history and what are its financials and how do those financials compare to the rest of the motorcycle industry? It's a toy not a game changer in any way.

remy_martian

· #76 · 9 mo ago

The Polaris Slingshot is still around, isn't it?

Not sure the CanAm is...I always thought they looked like snowmobiles

CliffordK

· #77 · 9 mo ago

hiura said:
Name the most successful 3-wheel 'motorcycle' in history and what are its financials and how do those financials compare to the rest of the motorcycle industry? It's a toy not a game changer in any way.

Sinclair?

CliffordK

· #78 · 9 mo ago

Hmm...

What about the Messerschmitt 3-wheeler? The car's out of production now, but the company went through a couple of changes and is now worth about $75 Billion.

BMW also had a 3-wheeler. And now where is the company?

remy_martian

· #79 · 9 mo ago

Reliant Robin, if we're going overseas. 3 Wheelers can be made safe:

Reactions: 1

floydr

· #80 · 9 mo ago

Piaggio MP3 egines sizes from 125CC to 500cc in production since 2006 230,000 produced although it is a scooter they even produced a hybrid scooter.
later floyd

61 - 80 of 105 Posts