The IMPOSIBLE DIY Hybrid

3346 Views 56 Replies 18 Participants Last post by joekitch, 2 mo ago

Joe25

Discussion Starter · 2 mo ago

Hi all,
This seems to be an impossible project from the looks of all the forums online, but here I go. I hope to build a custom DIY hybrid and was wondering if anyone had recommendations for communities/forums where I can ask some questions.

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remy_martian

· #2 · 2 mo ago

Improbable, not impossible.

You might be that one person in 100 billion that can code up hybrid control software that it takes 40 people in a major auto OEM to do.

Keep in mind that they have access to every single sensor, actuator, and module's signaling and CAN/LIN specs -- you do not. So you'll need to reverse engineer all of them in addition to converting the ICE to drive by wire throttle, etc.

I suggest you read the threads of many here who had hybrid ambitions. I don't know of anybody who has pulled it off.

You might...but it's improbable.

Reactions: 1

Joe25

Discussion Starter · #3 · 2 mo ago

remy_martian said:
Improbable, not impossible.

You might be that one person in 100 billion that can code up hybrid control software that it takes 40 people in a major auto OEM to do.

Keep in mind that they have access to every single sensor, actuator, and module's signaling and CAN/LIN specs -- you do not. So you'll need to reverse engineer all of them in addition to converting the ICE to drive by wire throttle, etc.

I suggest you read the threads of many here who had hybrid ambitions. I don't know of anybody who has pulled it off.

You might...but it's improbable.

Hey, I am waiting to post this on another forum but here is my concept:

Hi all,
This is a vague Pipe Dream, but in the hopes of starting a conversation,

DIY Hybrids seem incredibly difficult to accomplish, but I am starting out optimistic. I hope to Frankenstein a Prius computer system to control an electric and gas engine. At the moment, this is a concept that I am trying to put together, and I am hoping for some help.

I have not decided on the exact engines I will use—only a general concept of what I want the car to accomplish. At the moment, I want to make a drivetrain that can not only go long-distance for road trips but also can handle rugged off-road terrain. It will also be powerful enough to pull a Motor Home. So in total, an all-around Hybrid SUV.

It is 100% doable to swap a gasoline engine onto basically any other car. It is also 100% possible to convert nearly any car into full electric. However, I am finding that one of the many problems that have been hard to solve when doing a DIY hybrid is to get a gas engine and an electrical engine to communicate when neither has ever been designed to work with the other.

So I thought the best place to start is to troubleshoot by modifying or designing a control unit to bridge communication between gas and electrical engines.

I wondered if anyone might know how to "hack" into a Prius or any other hybrid control system to use the car company's software to optimize their system onto a new engine.

Also, if there are any control units on the market now that can communicate between a gas and electric motor.

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Joe25

Discussion Starter · #4 · 2 mo ago

remy_martian said:
Improbable, not impossible.

You might be that one person in 100 billion that can code up hybrid control software that it takes 40 people in a major auto OEM to do.

Keep in mind that they have access to every single sensor, actuator, and module's signaling and CAN/LIN specs -- you do not. So you'll need to reverse engineer all of them in addition to converting the ICE to drive by wire throttle, etc.

I suggest you read the threads of many here who had hybrid ambitions. I don't know of anybody who has pulled it off.

You might...but it's improbable.

Here is another idea that I am toeing with.

Another option is to take a Prius engine (for example) and modify it to become more powerful while increasing mileage. Right now, the two modifications conflict with each other regarding thermodynamic law. However, I am sure they can be cracked!! I am new to the trade and need to learn so much more.

So, in summary, do an engine swap into a chaise that I like and modify the hybrid engine to match the specs I am looking for.

Could this be more possible?

remy_martian

· #5 · 2 mo ago (Edited)

Less possible. You just f-----d up the control laws for the hybrid.

Electric Land Cruiser

· #6 · 2 mo ago

Since you are interested in tuning up a Prius, you should do the project that I wanted to start but abandoned; a Honda CR-Z super hybrid!

The Honda CR-Z 2011-2016 has a small 10kw electric assist and a small 600-900 Wh battery depending on the year. On crzforum.com there are members who are modifying the hybrid system to give almost 50kw of assist and using any type of battery you want. They are also hacking the IMA (Honda hybrid system) to allow the car to drive further on electric power only. I think that would not only be an awesome project, but a totally awesome car. The gasoline engine can be modified and there are turbo and supercharger kits as well as exhaust and the other stuff. Combine it with an electric-hybrid turbocharger to charge up the batteries under full boost and spin the turbo up to eliminate lag.

Joe25

Discussion Starter · #7 · 2 mo ago

Electric Land Cruiser said:
Since you are interested in tuning up a Prius, you should do the project that I wanted to start but abandoned; a Honda CR-Z super hybrid!

The Honda CR-Z 2011-2016 has a small 10kw electric assist and a small 600-900 Wh battery depending on the year. On crzforum.com there are members who are modifying the hybrid system to give almost 50kw of assist and using any type of battery you want. They are also hacking the IMA (Honda hybrid system) to allow the car to drive further on electric power only. I think that would not only be an awesome project, but a totally awesome car. The gasoline engine can be modified and there are turbo and supercharger kits as well as exhaust and the other stuff. Combine it with an electric-hybrid turbocharger to charge up the batteries under full boost and spin the turbo up to eliminate lag.

Do you have a link to the exact forum where the community is talking about modifying the CR-Z? This is great! And Remy is right, this is going to be more than a difficult project.

Joe25

Discussion Starter · #8 · 2 mo ago

Electric Land Cruiser said:
Since you are interested in tuning up a Prius, you should do the project that I wanted to start but abandoned; a Honda CR-Z super hybrid!

The Honda CR-Z 2011-2016 has a small 10kw electric assist and a small 600-900 Wh battery depending on the year. On crzforum.com there are members who are modifying the hybrid system to give almost 50kw of assist and using any type of battery you want. They are also hacking the IMA (Honda hybrid system) to allow the car to drive further on electric power only. I think that would not only be an awesome project, but a totally awesome car. The gasoline engine can be modified and there are turbo and supercharger kits as well as exhaust and the other stuff. Combine it with an electric-hybrid turbocharger to charge up the batteries under full boost and spin the turbo up to eliminate lag.

Also, why did you abandon the project?

northcoast

· #9 · 2 mo ago

Over a period of 40 years, the late Robert Q. Riley designed a series of ICE, electric and hybrid vehicles which were intended for do-it-yourselfers. He prototyped each one and sold complete sets of plans, many of which were eventually built.

A couple of years ago I purchased the plans for his XR-3 diesel/electric hybrid and everything about it seemed well conceived. Although I ultimately decided that assembling an exotic automobile from scratch was too big a job for me, there was nothing impossibly complicated about it... the electronics were basic and the mechanicals straightforward. In fact, the most difficult aspect seemed to be the bodywork.

Here's a link...

XR3 Plug-In Hybrid: A Three-wheeled 125-mpg - 225-MPGe Hybrid Vehicle You Build From Plans

The XR3 plug-in hybrid is an advanced three-wheeled hybrid you can build from plans and achieve up to 125 mpg. Build as Diesel, battery, or hybrid.

rqriley.hostcentric.com

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Joe25

Discussion Starter · #10 · 2 mo ago

northcoast said:
Over a period of 40 years, the late Robert Q. Riley designed a series of ICE, electric and hybrid vehicles which were intended for do-it-yourselfers. He prototyped each one and sold complete sets of plans, many of which were eventually built.

A couple of years ago I purchased the plans for his XR-3 diesel/electric hybrid and everything about it seemed well conceived. Although I ultimately decided that assembling an exotic automobile from scratch was too big a job for me, there was nothing impossibly complicated about it... the electronics were basic and the mechanicals straightforward. In fact, the most difficult aspect seemed to be the bodywork.

Here's a link...

XR3 Plug-In Hybrid: A Three-wheeled 125-mpg - 225-MPGe Hybrid Vehicle You Build From Plans

The XR3 plug-in hybrid is an advanced three-wheeled hybrid you can build from plans and achieve up to 125 mpg. Build as Diesel, battery, or hybrid.

rqriley.hostcentric.com

Thank you! I am most concerned about the electronics and hardware at the moment! If the plans cover and teach you all of that, then the Bodywork would be easy for me! Thank you so much. This has been so helpful.

kennybobby

· #11 · 2 mo ago

Did rqriley ever build one himself, or is he just selling the plans so that someone else can build one?

Reactions: 1

Joe25

Discussion Starter · #12 · 2 mo ago (Edited)

.

Joe25

Discussion Starter · #13 · 2 mo ago

kennybobby said:
Did rqriley ever build one himself, or is he just selling the plans so that someone else can build one?

Here is a video I quickly found. It took the hobbyist 11 years to complete. I am only interested in the engine system so that I can put the custom hybrid onto an existing chassis. I would like to retrofit a jeep cherokee, an old range rover, or something of the like.

brian_

· #14 · 2 mo ago

Joe25 said:
... I hope to Frankenstein a Prius computer system to control an electric and gas engine. At the moment, this is a concept that I am trying to put together, and I am hoping for some help.

...

It is 100% doable to swap a gasoline engine onto basically any other car. It is also 100% possible to convert nearly any car into full electric. However, I am finding that one of the many problems that have been hard to solve when doing a DIY hybrid is to get a gas engine and an electrical engine to communicate when neither has ever been designed to work with the other.

So I thought the best place to start is to troubleshoot by modifying or designing a control unit to bridge communication between gas and electrical engines.

I wondered if anyone might know how to "hack" into a Prius or any other hybrid control system to use the car company's software to optimize their system onto a new engine.

Also, if there are any control units on the market now that can communicate between a gas and electric motor.

It is, of course, the engine's computer and the motor's controller which need to communicate... and even then, as you described it's really a matter of both of them communicating with a vehicle control computer rather than communicating directly with each other. That's certainly possible, but as you realize it is far from simple.

The control system of a Prius is programmed specifically for that vehicle, and reprogramming is not practical.

The required vehicle control unit is relatively easy in hardware - because it can use CAN communication - but the programming is another matter.

northcoast

· #15 · 2 mo ago

Joe25 said:
Here is a video I quickly found. It took the hobbyist 11 years to complete. I am only interested in the engine system so that I can put the custom hybrid onto an existing chassis. I would like to retrofit a jeep cherokee, an old range rover, or something of the like.

Wow... Over the past decade I've watched this guy's videos as his XR-3 project proceeded, and he has done such an excellent job! If I remember correctly, he had the chassis built and running on the diesel engine after only a few years. So much of his time since then must have gone into all those custom doors and laminated body shapes.

The basic idea of ICE front drive and electric rear drive would be adaptable to any number of existing vehicles, particularly those equipped with AWD or 4WD.

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remy_martian

· #16 · 2 mo ago (Edited by Moderator)

"All ya gotta do is..."

Yeah - the basic idea translates to even a transit bus.

But..."idea". As in, you have no idea how complex it is to manage torque under various road and traction conditions, and while juggling those, managing energy, load, and battery levels.

Dunning-Kruger Effect in play, yet again here, with two victims reinforcing each other.

Your $$. Go for it.

Duncan

· #17 · 2 mo ago

northcoast said:
The basic idea of ICE front drive and electric rear drive would be adaptable to any number of existing vehicles, particularly those equipped with AWD or 4WD.

I disagree with Remy on this - I think its not too difficult to do
Remember most cars operate only driving one end - so driving both without degrading traction should be easy

The other part - the energy usage - again a fairly simple system should work

The bit that I do think is difficult is not the "getting it to work" - but the "getting it to work better" than either an IC vehicle or an EV

remy_martian

· #18 · 2 mo ago

Unlike where you live, most vehicles here are automatic transmission equipped. Drag that for a couple of miles and it's toast.

This is the point of doing it, spending the time and money, not merely making it work:

"The bit that I do think is difficult is not the "getting it to work" - but the "getting it to work better" than either an IC vehicle or an EV"

Duncan

· #19 · 2 mo ago

remy_martian said:
Unlike where you live, most vehicles here are automatic transmission equipped. Drag that for a couple of miles and it's toast.

This is the point of doing it, spending the time and money, not merely making it work:

"The bit that I do think is difficult is not the "getting it to work" - but the "getting it to work better" than either an IC vehicle or an EV"

True using auto trans makes it much more difficult - but the solution - use a manual trans for the engine part is blindingly obvious

remy_martian

· #20 · 2 mo ago

I give up.

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