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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I figured that I should start a build thread on this so I can stop cluttering the other areas of the forum with my questions.. Anyway, here are the basics.

The car: 1998 chevy metro

The drivetrain: ac35 motor and 1238 7601 controller mated to the evwest chill plate. The motor is coupled to original 5 speed, 4.39 ratio tranny. No clutch.

The charger: Manzanita pfc40 liquid cooled.

The bms: Orion

The batteries: 34 GBS generation 3 200ah cells. I fabbed a 12 cell tray where the gas tank used to be, and it is removed or installed in the same manner as the oem tank was. I modified the floors under the front seat to accept 10 cells; five under each seat. The last 12 cells fit under the hood.

The plug: 50 amp welder (that is what I have in my shop). The plug is easily swapped to whatever kind of plug I want in there because it is mounted in a standard metal household box. I modified the box so that it will sandwich the 220 male plug of your choice between the back of the box and the lid. I welded nuts to the back of the box and it is mounted FIRMLY with long bolts that go through the factory filler neck pocket holes, through the box, and into the nuts welded to the back of the box. You can switch from a dryer to welder (or vice versa) in ten minutes. Also have 110 male plug mounted up front.

The dc converter: Elcon 30 amp tucked inside the left quarter panel. 15ah sla battery.

The brakes: vbs-ev-12. Vacuum pump.

Instrumentation: I purchased the Orion bms with intent to utilize the graphic user interface. (GUI) I plan a windows 7 tablet to use the gui. I also have the gauge that came with the ac35 kit.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
I have a few unresolved wiring questions. Frodus left me some really helpful links in other threads, and I now have a bunch of diagrams printed out, and half of the wiring done. The wires I still have question marks on are as follows...

ORION: dicharge enable.

7601 controller: not sure what "pedal interlock" is... green wire. Not sure about white/red "menu button" goes. Also not sure what to wire forward or reverse to.

PFC40: does anybody know of a power supply that can take 100 to 240vac in and get 12 to 15 vdc out? It needs to be wired to my ac lines going to the charger, and be able to take 220 or 110, since the charger does not care how many volts ac are coming in, the power supply needs to be the same way. The manzanita/orion integration diagram that frodus linked me to says the dc output needs to be at least 350ma.
 

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I have a few unresolved wiring questions. Frodus left me some really helpful links in other threads, and I now have a bunch of diagrams printed out, and half of the wiring done. The wires I still have question marks on are as follows...

ORION: dicharge enable.
That is meant to disable the controller. The controller is the load, and thus what discharges the pack. The 1238 controller has pin 1 as the enable. Pin 1 is pack voltage. You'll need a relay that can activate off the output signal from the Orion and it will switch the enable on/off. A Tyco KUEP-3D55-12 relay is what I use. This cannot be a standard auto relay, this is switching pack voltage and contacts need to be rated for the higher voltage you're using. The KUEP-3D55-12 contacts are 150VDC rated.

7601 controller: not sure what "pedal interlock" is... green wire.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interlock_(engineering)
This keeps the vehicle from creeping if throttle signal isn't 0%. Some throttles (PB-6) have a microswitch on them. When the throttle is idle (not pushing on it) the switch is closed. If you don't have it, don't wire it up.

Not sure about white/red "menu button" goes.
There's a red pushbutton switch that came with the kit. This scrolls through the menu on the 840 display. Wire it as shown and put it anywhere you want.

Also not sure what to wire forward or reverse to.
Put it on a toggle switch DPST with center off (ON-OFF-ON switch). You can wire to forward if you only go forward, but it's nice to have reverse sometimes. Wire as shown and put anywhere you want.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Thanks frodus for the wiring info.

Does anybody have info on a main pack fuse or circuit breaker? I went down to my local car audio shop to get an anl fuse and holder, but the guy says that anl fuses only go to 350 amps. I am interested in finding the appropriate fuse rating and any ideas on what to buy. I am interested in the best quality options, not just the cheapest. Also looking for ideas on an emergency disconnect. Do I need more than just a 12 volt disconnect at the main contactor?
 

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Does anybody have info on a main pack fuse or circuit breaker?... Do I need more than just a 12 volt disconnect at the main contactor?
you *should* have an ineteria switch in-line with your main contactor 12v power to open circuit in case of impact. A big fat feraz fuse somewhere mid-pack, and a big circuit breaker WITH a manual pull cable, hopefully mounted under the dash by your knee and still visible/reachable for an emergency responder sticking their head in if you are unconcious.

fuses and circuit breakers are available at most of the ev retailers advertising on the right.... kta-ev, and evolveelectrics are great.
 

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Thanks frodus for the wiring info.

Does anybody have info on a main pack fuse or circuit breaker? I went down to my local car audio shop to get an anl fuse and holder, but the guy says that anl fuses only go to 350 amps. I am interested in finding the appropriate fuse rating and any ideas on what to buy. I am interested in the best quality options, not just the cheapest. Also looking for ideas on an emergency disconnect. Do I need more than just a 12 volt disconnect at the main contactor?
ANL fuses are rated for 80VDC or less. You can't just use any fuse. It MUST break the current and not arc. ANL fuses go higher, but it's the wrong fuse for your application. You need a different fuse.

Get a 400A fuse from here:
http://www.discountfuse.com/A15QS400_4_Mersen_Ferraz_Shawmut_Amp_Trap_Fuse_p/a15qs400-4.htm
 

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Discussion Starter #11
I see the "key switch relay" on the controller diagram, pin 1. Instead of having a 12 volt signal from an ignition switch as shown in the manual, I will be wiring the relay coil to the orion instead. If I understand this right, the 12 volts positive side of the relay will be the orions "discharge enable"? And the ground side of the relay coil can go to chassis ground?
 

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I see the "key switch relay" on the controller diagram, pin 1. Instead of having a 12 volt signal from an ignition switch as shown in the manual, I will be wiring the relay coil to the orion instead. If I understand this right, the 12 volts positive side of the relay will be the orions "discharge enable"? And the ground side of the relay coil can go to chassis ground?
I'm a bit worried that this may be a system that is a bit past your experience level. I wouldn't just start wiring things up until you fully understand. Starting by drawing a complete schematic of your system is the best thing to do. That way, others can review it if you're making a mistake.

You didn't read and understand my explanation of Open Drain outputs at all.

Reread this thread and understand it:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php?t=80472

Open drain is essentially switching to ground. You wire the +12V to one side of the relay coil. The other side of the relay coil goes to the Open Drain of the Orion. When the transistor inside the Orion is triggered, the path current path is complete (it goes from +12V, through the relay coil, through the transistor to ground).
One thing to note: The controller 12V is NOT the same as the rest of the vehicle 12V (from your DC-DC converter, also supplying power to the BMS). They are NOT connected at all. The 12V on the controller is for local control of contactors, the display, and the controller IO. Do not connecto pin 7 on the curtis to Ground of your 12V system either. The Curtis needs to remain isolated from the rest of the system. If you need to interface to something else, use a relay.

About the discharge enable, Refer to this:
http://hpevs.com/Site/images/jpeg/wiring-schematics/generic_wiring_diagram_for_car.pdf

The 12V relay coil is to be powered by any external power source. In this case, you want want the Orion BMS to enable/disable your controller.

Referring to this:
http://www.orionbms.com/manuals/pdf/wiring.pdf

You would wire your Ignition switch between your 12V DC-DC and the READY input. When you turn the ignition on, it wakes the BMS and enters discharge mode. The Discharge Enable output is enabled when there are no faults.

The 12V ignition coil that HPEVS shows is wired like this:
The contacts are wired as shown on the HPEVS diagram.
The Coil is wired such that one end of the coil is wired to +12V of the DC-DC. The other side is wired to pin 7 of the Orion.



That being said:
You really need to draw a schematic and post it here in the thread so we can go through it. It seems like you're asking for help every step of the way and aren't understanding to any of the advice you've been given. Take your time, draw a schematic and do it right. I'm affraid if you don't, you're going to ruin the IO on the Curtis or the Orion.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Frodus, you are getting through to me. You are right on about this wiring being above my experience. The open drain is new to me, and keeping track of the number of voltage systems that are isolated from each other is new as well. Thanks so much for your patience and knowledge. It will take a few hours for me to absorb the new data. I think if I had built a basic dc lead sled that there would not be nearly as much learned as what I am getting now. These components will soon be wired, and the wiring mastered...
 

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I don't mind helping, but I HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend drafting up a schematic. A year later, when you forget why you wired it this way, you'll be able to look at it and understand.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I think I had misunderstood your reference to "12 volt signal from the orion" in post 7. Orion IS the signal, but not the 12 volt source. This looks much like the same concept as the relays I wired in to the ac mains for the orion to manzanita interface, but the power supply here will be the dc dc system. The discharge enable wire from the orion will serve as the ground for the relay coil and the other side of the coil will use dc dc + when the ignition key is turned to on.
 

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I don't mind helping, but I HIGHLY HIGHLY recommend drafting up a schematic. A year later, when you forget why you wired it this way, you'll be able to look at it and understand.
Man, isn't that the truth! I'm about a year in with my car, and I refer to my initial drawings and notes all the time. I spent hours hand drawing out wiring schematics when I was starting, it does help tremendously.
 

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Discussion Starter #17
I have been drawing diagrams of the subsystems just to understand and plan. The manzanita relays took about ten sheets of paper, but finally they worked on my bench. I have no master diagram yet, but that will come...
 

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I think I had misunderstood your reference to "12 volt signal from the orion" in post 7. Orion IS the signal, but not the 12 volt source. This looks much like the same concept as the relays I wired in to the ac mains for the orion to manzanita interface, but the power supply here will be the dc dc system. The discharge enable wire from the orion will serve as the ground for the relay coil and the other side of the coil will use dc dc + when the ignition key is turned to on.
That's my bad. I incorrectly referenced it previously. I meant signal and I corrected it.

I mean the Relay gets it's signal from the orion, but not as a 12V signal, it's a Ground path. Get the 12V+ from the same place you get the Ready signal from. The ground needs to come from the same source as well.... i.e. dc-dc converter or 12V aux battery.

But since you haven't really outlined the entire system in this thread (but in 3-4 other threads) it's hard to tell what you're using for your 12V supply for the BMS.
 

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Discussion Starter #19
I am very interested in laying out the system in a format that makes it easy for you and others to assist with. It feels as a first time builder that the system is coming together as I build and learn, and not completely laid out in advance as it should be. It looks like I left out the dc dc converter in post 1 of the thread, so I will go back and add that in.
 

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Ignore drawing the 12V vehicle wiring system (lights, turn signals, etc) for now... that's another can of worms and AFAIC, you'd only need to tap into the brake lights for regen indication.
 
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