[david85]

I think you need to take a closer look at hydrogen.

How much electricity does it take to generate enough hydrogen for a full range car? How does it compare to charging an electric car to drive the same distance? The answer may suprise you and it has nothing to do with an oil company conspiracy. Furthermore, electric charging infrastructure is easier to implement than hydrogen filling stations.

As far as range anxiety is concerned, I can't say its been a factor driving my electric car. Know your limit, drive within it. Its no different than driving within the range of your gas powered car. I'm not giving up any freedoms by driving an EV because I have a fossil fueled vehicle for longer trips. The idea of electric cars is not to force others to drive them, its to give them a choice and let them decide.

 

[david85]

I thought they explain near the end of the film that hydrogen is a bit of a red herring. They do explain that it diverted attention away from BEVs, but I don't remember them defending it. Its been a while since I watched it though.

 

[david85]

You are right, they don't defend Hydrogen at all. They explain how the automakers convinced the government that Hydrogen is better, how they dangled the hydrogen dream in front of us and continue to do so, even though the necessary technology is still 30 years away. Just before CARB voted to cancel the EV mandate, its head, Alan Lloyd, got a job in hydrogen research. The hydrogen folks promise long ranges and renewable fuel, even though they still have less range than the EV1 did, and use fuel that is more damaging than the gasoline that I/we are addicted to. THIS is why I hate the movie - because it reminds me of all this stuff and makes me angry!

OK, now I understand.

I've watched it twice. Rented it a few years ago, then saw a good chunk of it again on CBC. Both times I wanted to punch a hole through the walls even though I can't agree 100% with everything about the film.

On the upside, it motivated me to build my own EV.

 

[david85]

i'm way greener than you are in that count.

That has nothing to do with hydrogen, and if a holier than thou argument is the best you can do, you won't win many supporters here.

So you watch a science show on PPS - good for you.

You ride a bike and refuse to own a car - we don't care, but good for you anyway.

What net efficiency did that thing on PPS deliver?

Were the numbers independantly verified?

How much did the project cost?

I'm not defending the personal references levelled against you, but you are not exactly taking the high road either.

 

[david85]

... and you're either a flat out idiot or a lying sack of crap, either way unworthy of debating.

... if it weren't for the oil scum who DO hold the hydrogen cell tech you're in denial about because you aren't in full possession of the facts (or are a flat out liar) ...

the only way you could win an argument against that is to be a liar. facts are facts. the only thing keeping it off the market is greed. if it weren't for that, hydrogen power is the pragmatic solution. why am i even arguing with EV fanboys who deny reality & practicality? no one can say anything to you you don't want to hear.

If you enjoy this forum, I suggest you avoid language like this.

 

[david85]

Guys I don't think tossing some jabs back at him really help diffuse the situation here.

 

[david85]

We did have to take action against a newbie member who was a blind supporter of hydrogen and didn't seem to care for the technical side of the questions we had about fue cells. His remarks were far more inflamatory however and he eventually was given enough rope to hang himself - and was banned.

As far as discussing hydrogen is concerned, I see little problem with that since we often discuss completely unrelated topics from time to time. When things degrade into this sort of exchange however, well - thats not what this forum is about.

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I've given a verbal warning to zeroemission, the next move is up to him.
Since everyone had a chance to speak their mind on this, I'll close this thread down so we can get back to our usual routine.