[Tyn245GL]

Hi,
It's time to tell you about my conversion. I am converting a 1993 Volvo 240 GL Classic to a 320V AC electric volvo. The project started in September 2009 and is done in my spare time. Currently I am half way the project and I aim to finish by April-May this year.
What have we completed so far:
- car completely stripped to prepare for body restauration (repainting, rust prevention etc.)
- ICE, ECU, exhaust system and all fuel supply components removed
- components purchased (MES-DEA being the main components)
- motor-to-transmission adapter and coupler built and test fitted
- motor suspension frame completed, mounted to original Volvo engine mounts
- front battery boxes built
Next week the body restauration will start.

Details see:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/garage/cars/227

Tyn245GL

 

[crap]

That's a huge batterypack if I'm not misreading, 41.6kWh? I love how it's nothing like what people expect an EV to look like. It's just a big, heavy, ordinary, practical volvo. And if you add some LRR tyres, a bellypan, and some flat hub caps you should get a good range aswell.

 

[Tyn245GL]

Yes, it will be a 41kWh pack . Need that to get an acceptable range, and this car has loads of space to store the 100 pcs. of batteries.

Why the Volvo 245? In our country (The Netherlands) many people (including myself) love the Volvo 245 and here it is considered as a true classic car! Many people still drive it and keep it in top condition.
I chose this car because of this admiration, but also for its technical simplicity which makes it easy to work on, and its huge amount of space to fit components.
By converting it to electric and doing the body restoration, I can preserve this fine 1993 car for the future and hopefully give it a very long extended life.

By the way: it's not too heavy: 1400 kilograms is only 100 kilograms more than the Volkswagen Golf Variant which is being converted in a series of 200 cars by a company called Electric Cars Europe, which is located in The Netherlands as well. These cars can drive more than 110 miles!
And it is much less than Brian's AC LIFEPO4 Kia Sorento which weighs more than 1900 kilograms if I'm right.
And note that the Volvo 245 has a cast iron ICE, so it already lost a lot of weight when I removed that!

Update on the project:
Front battery boxes are almost ready (pictures soon!).
Tomorrow we will start cutting the rear floor (under the cargo floor, above the area where the rear muffler and fuel tank used to be). After that the rear battery box will be fitted in there.

 

[crap]

yeah volvo 240 is a great car, very reliable and practical. I will be watching your progress.

 

[Tyn245GL]

My build website is now available in English.
Take a look at: http://www.electricvolvo.com/EN/EN.html.

I will post the last three articles and future articles here also.

 

[Tyn245GL]

The stock Volvo B230 / M47 flywheel has been machined down by Mannessen Engines, Soesterberg, The Netherlands. After that the flywheel has been balanced with the pressure plate mounted on.

 

[Tyn245GL]

Last week I have put the front suspension largely back together. The subframe has been powdercoated very nicely and looks like new. First I fitted new tie-rods to the steering rack. Then we greased the stearing gear and refitted the boots with tie-wraps. Then I mounted the steering rack to the subframe. Using the drawings from VADIS it was very easy to find out which parts are different between the power steering rack and the manual steering rack: only a few parts had to be changed.

After that we fitted brand new PU-bushings to both (also brand new) control arms. We also mounted new ball joints on both sides.

Meanwhile, Classic & Ko took apart the brake calipers, removed the old brake disks and protection plates from the struts. The brake calipers have been cleaned and renewed, and received new brake pads. The struts will be fitted with new bearings, new protection plates and new brake disks.

Finally I mounted the struts to the lower ball joints and the tie-rod end balljoints.

The front suspension is now as new and can be mounted back into the car.

 

[Tyn245GL]

Currently Classic & Ko are working hard on the body restoration. The doors, tailgate and engine hood are prepared for the final paint spraying: they have been sanded, and received an epoxy coating. Also some minor dents were removed.

The past and coming week the main body will undergo the same procedure.

After that the whole body will get its beautiful blue metallic color back again and its final coating.

 

[Matthijs]

Browsing trough your website I noticed that your battery boxes were especially made with holes in them to cool the batteries. Now that we had sub zero temperatures here in Holland, aren't you afraid that your batteries are going to be to cold for charging and will see high voltage sag under load? Reading through other threads I see people trying to insulate and warm their batteries rather then cool them. Very nice components you have there! May I ask where you got them? If you like you can PM me about it. Thanks.

 

[Tyn245GL]

Browsing trough your website I noticed that your battery boxes were especially made with holes in them to cool the batteries. Now that we had sub zero temperatures here in Holland, aren't you afraid that your batteries are going to be to cold for charging and will see high voltage sag under load? Reading through other threads I see people trying to insulate and warm their batteries rather then cool them. Very nice components you have there! May I ask where you got them? If you like you can PM me about it. Thanks.

You are right, especially this Winter the temperatures in The Netherlands have been very low... In the mean time, I have changed my isolation strategy: the holes in the battery boxes will no longer be used for cooling. Originally they were made just for some weight saving, and they look cool, so they still have a meaning . Instead, all walls of the box and the floor will be covered with Armaflex, a very nice isolation material. Cooling will be done from the top by a fan installed in the box cover lid, automatically controlled by the BMS.
Thanks for the remark about the components! I got most of these from Metricmind.com. BMS and batteries have been supplied by EVComponents.com.

 

[Matthijs]

You are right, especially this Winter the temperatures in The Netherlands have been very low... In the mean time, I have changed my isolation strategy: the holes in the battery boxes will no longer be used for cooling. Originally they were made just for some weight saving, and they look cool, so they still have a meaning . Instead, all walls of the box and the floor will be covered with Armaflex, a very nice isolation material. Cooling will be done from the top by a fan installed in the box cover lid, automatically controlled by the BMS.
Thanks for the remark about the components! I got most of these from Metricmind.com. BMS and batteries have been supplied by EVComponents.com.

That Armaflex material looks very good. That will be a good combination with active cooling from fans. I will keep following your website and build, very inspiring! A little surpriced that you got the MES-DEA parts from metricmind. I found a website via this forum with an Italian supplier of DES-DEA parts with nice pricing: http://www.electro-vehicles.eu/shop/shop.asp

 

[Matthijs]

Knowing you use a Mes-Dea setup in your car I think you will be interested is this rather mildly shocking Friday show of Jack Rickard & Brian Noto. They actually say Mes-Dea is rubbish and you do not want to buy from them and the service of Metric-Mind is really bad. EVTV's Weekly News Show - March 19, 2010

 

[Tyn245GL]

Hi Matthijs,
I watched EVTV's Friday 19th movie about their MES-DEA motor mounting problem. What they did is bolting the transmission adapter plate to the motor's aluminium cover plate, instead of directly to the motor's cast iron casing. This has caused the problem. The cover plate is not designed to handle the complete force of the drive train, it is just a cover plate.
They are blaming the manufacturer and the US distributor for making a bad product and providing bad service, but this is certainly not related to product quality. I agree that documentation on the motor and mounting instructions are lacking. But the MES-DEA products are indeed of high quality and applied in many Electric Vehicles, including several OEM pilots.
With all respect to EVTV's great builds and high quality website and very informative web TV shows, I think is is a bit unprofessional of them to express their frustration - because that is what I feel this whole episode was about - this way via this web TV show. In fact, a few episodes earlier they were very positive about Metricmind.com, the Evision product they supply, and the customer service they receive on it. So far I only have had good experience with the customer service of Metricmind and MES-DEA, although it is true that they are not always easy to reach (which is I think due to the fact that they mainly supply to OEM's and not so much to private builders).
Hearing about EVTV's experience, I am happy that we bolted the transmission adapter plate directly to the motor's cast iron house, which should in our opinion be a very solid construction. I'll report in several months from now how our motor and its mounting will behave.

 

[Matthijs]

Judging from your adapterplate design I wasn't completely sure if you mounted the transmission adapter plate directly to the motor's cast iron housing. You seem to have had the insight to mount it this way. Did you remove the motor's aluminium cover plate completely?

 

[Tyn245GL]

Judging from your adapterplate design I wasn't completely sure if you mounted the transmission adapter plate directly to the motor's cast iron housing. You seem to have had the insight to mount it this way. Did you remove the motor's aluminium cover plate completely?

I have the 200-330W motor which does not have the aluminium cover plate. The MES-DEA 200-330W motor is different from the smaller models and when supplied by MetricMind it comes with a smooth keyed shaft designed by MetricMind Corporation (instead of an involuted spline). This shaft can couple with the transmission using a standard taper lock QD bushing p/n 117393 (Dodge catalog) (But we didn't use that as we were not aware of that, instead we made a our own custom transmission shaft coupler). Also the front flange of the 200-330W motor is made of iron rather than aluminum for the 200-75 through 200-250 models.

See the attached images (c) MMC.

 

[Guest]

Hi Matthijs,
I watched EVTV's Friday 19th movie about their MES-DEA motor mounting problem. What they did is bolting the transmission adapter plate to the motor's aluminium cover plate, instead of directly to the motor's cast iron casing. This has caused the problem. The cover plate is not designed to handle the complete force of the drive train, it is just a cover plate.
They are blaming the manufacturer and the US distributor for making a bad product and providing bad service, but this is certainly not related to product quality. I agree that documentation on the motor and mounting instructions are lacking. But the MES-DEA products are indeed of high quality and applied in many Electric Vehicles, including several OEM pilots.
With all respect to EVTV's great builds and high quality website and very informative web TV shows, I think is is a bit unprofessional of them to express their frustration - because that is what I feel this whole episode was about - this way via this web TV show. In fact, a few episodes earlier they were very positive about Metricmind.com, the Evision product they supply, and the customer service they receive on it. So far I only have had good experience with the customer service of Metricmind and MES-DEA, although it is true that they are not always easy to reach (which is I think due to the fact that they mainly supply to OEM's and not so much to private builders).
Hearing about EVTV's experience, I am happy that we bolted the transmission adapter plate directly to the motor's cast iron house, which should in our opinion be a very solid construction. I'll report in several months from now how our motor and its mounting will behave.

I'm sure it will work marvelously and you are quite right, that end plate will NOT bear the weight of the motor. However, the ONLY documentation we received with the motor, a single page, has a photograph showing THEM doing exactly that with their gearbox.

Further, we have been talking to them for 4 weeks. Their conclusion is that we did not adequately support the OTHER end of the motor, which they have no data on to make that assumption. We provided photos of our adapter plate, the motor, and the motor mounted on the adapter plate and they decided that should have worked.

Finally, the "end plate" as you call it and I totally agree, has 4 M8 threaded holes they refer to as mounting points. The bolts into the frame are only very small M6 bolts. But there are plenty of them.

Your analysis, which I agree with by the way, was NOT the one Victor and MES-DEA came to. They still insist the end plate was perfectly appropriate for mounting and should have worked, but that there must be something we are doing wrong in mounting it.

Well there is. Using that plate at all. It is COMICALLY thin.

Jack Rickard
http://EVTV.me

 

[Tyn245GL]

I'm sure it will work marvelously and you are quite right, that end plate will NOT bear the weight of the motor. However, the ONLY documentation we received with the motor, a single page, has a photograph showing THEM doing exactly that with their gearbox.

Further, we have been talking to them for 4 weeks. Their conclusion is that we did not adequately support the OTHER end of the motor, which they have no data on to make that assumption. We provided photos of our adapter plate, the motor, and the motor mounted on the adapter plate and they decided that should have worked.

Finally, the "end plate" as you call it and I totally agree, has 4 M8 threaded holes they refer to as mounting points. The bolts into the frame are only very small M6 bolts. But there are plenty of them.

Your analysis, which I agree with by the way, was NOT the one Victor and MES-DEA came to. They still insist the end plate was perfectly appropriate for mounting and should have worked, but that there must be something we are doing wrong in mounting it.

Well there is. Using that plate at all. It is COMICALLY thin.

Jack Rickard
http://EVTV.me

Hi Jack, great to hear from you directly. I love your EVTV shows and the projects you are doing. Especially because for the Mini Cooper EV many components you chose are the same as I am using.

What exactly did they say that you were doing wrong in mounting the transmission adapter to the end plate?

 

[Guest]

What exactly did they say that you were doing wrong in mounting the transmission adapter to the end plate?

Nothing. They looked at all that, asked for a few measurements to make sure we were not bottoming in the boss area, and after 3 or 4 weeks determined that it was "inadequately supported from the other end."

This made no sense at all. They had very basic information about the other end and really hadn't asked much about it. At one point they asked what amount of the weight was held by the other end. I told them I didn't know, but we simply leveled the motor when determining the mount location on the other end.

They did not mention any exception to how we had it mounted to the adapter plate. If you look at your sheet, they show a smaller motor mounted to their gearbox using the endplate.

The brackets are a clue. But they arent' the issue. Those are to hoist/handle the motor, not to mount it.

The plate is comically overdesigned and underweight. You simply cannot manufacture that fine a detail in a cast aluminum part that thinly. If I drop that from table height to the floor it will likely shatter. It is an eggshell. They have a little bit of buildup around the M8 holes. But clearly insufficient.

We're making a new endplate of machined 6061 the thickness of the original assembly. The heat sink of the quite large motor adapter we have should keep the bearing cool.

Although the M6 screws look very small, there are a lot of them and the holes into the motor frame are quite good. You do want to use some of those with your adapter - do NOT rely solely on the endplate if you use those holes.

We've also added a bearing in our adapter to isolate sideways forces on the shaft, but we're using the flywheel and clutch assembly. I noticed your adapter has no such provisions.

Your Volvo project looks very interesting. I like Volvos. Built like tanks.

Jack Rickard

 

[Tyn245GL]

Although the M6 screws look very small, there are a lot of them and the holes into the motor frame are quite good. You do want to use some of those with your adapter - do NOT rely solely on the endplate if you use those holes.

We've also added a bearing in our adapter to isolate sideways forces on the shaft, but we're using the flywheel and clutch assembly. I noticed your adapter has no such provisions.

Thanks. We are indeed using the holes on the motor frame directly, my "330" motor does not have an end plate at all (see my earlier post in this thread).

I am also using the flywheel (machined down) and clutch assembly (as a set they have been fully round balanced). But we did not use a bearing in the adapter plate for isolating sideways forces. Because the flywheel + clutch assembly have been 100% balanced and the clutch is almost always fully engaged, and only disengaged occasionally when shifting to reverse (motor not spinning) or to 3rd gear for highway speeds (motor spinning at reasonnable speed), we don't expect any harmful sideways forces. All builds that I have seen so far do not have the additional bearing that you are creating, but nevertheless I like your concept: your construction seems to be very solid, and will have good additional protection for the motor shaft bearings.

Forgot to add that the transmission shaft has a pilot bearing which is housed in the motor-to-flywheel coupler.

 

[Tyn245GL]

Batteries have arrived!

This week a major milestone is achieved: the batteries have arrived! Seven crates weighing 445 kg, well packed and well handled. They were shipped directly from the factory in China. I am happy that I have the SE130Ah model, the successor of the SE120Ah. Each box contains a sheet with the serial numbers of the batteries and each battery’s voltage and internal resistance measurements. When they left the factory two months ago they were all at 3.30 Volts. I measured the voltages myself upon arrival and they are now all equal at 3.28 Volts.
I also did a trial fit of the batteries in the two front battery boxes. Turns out we did a good job in measuring these boxes up: all batteries fit very nicely with equal space around them for the isolation material and allowing room for the end plates and straps that will compress the batteries together.
Yesterday I visited two companies specialised in electric heating systems and isolation materials. I will receive a quote for tailor made heating cables that will be installed on the bottom of the battery boxes. For the isolation material I had the advice to use Armaflex, which is suitable for temperatures between -25 and 105 degrees Celsius. It is a nice material, slightly flexible, that will also absorb the vibrations of the driving vehicle. I think that will be perfect material.