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Discussion Starter #1
Please keep us in the loop by doing at least the most minimal thing possible: Acknowledge the problems, don't literally ignore us as if there are none.

15 seconds, "Sorry, we're working on it" would suffice for the most basic acknowledgement.

Some of the major issues include:

- Some 9 (?) months worth of posts and threads are entirely missing.
- Missing recent posts.
- Missing edited posts.
- Images not loading at all.

There are other threads about these so they need not be repeated here. This is not a demand for things to be fixed, or even a request for a timeline.

The purpose of this thread is to answer the question, by observation, of whether we are in fact, literally not even worth acknowledging by the company that took over with the promise of "I will be on the forum checking in daily to make sure regular maintenance is all taken care of and keep things running smoothly from behind the scenes."

Your behavior, right here and now, will provide us the answer to that question.
 

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Good afternoon everyone.

As you may know, we have been migrating our sites over to Google Cloud in order to help with outages and site speed, as well as added security. While doing this change, we are also converting the site to https. which you can read more about here https://techterms.com/definition/https

You may have noticed these changes may be causing some site issues. We are working with Google and VB to help us find long term solutions to these issues instead of bandage fixes and patches that seem to break more than they repair.

We understand that this is impacting your experience on the site, and we hope you understand that we are working on addressing all issue. We apologize for any inconvenience, and hope to have the forums back up and running asap.

If you are having issues, please try to only report if you are certain that they have not already been logged. This will ensure the support team is focused on identifying new issues and helping test the fixes as they are rolled out.
 

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If you are having issues, please try to only report if you are certain that they have not already been logged. This will ensure the support team is focused on identifying new issues and helping test the fixes as they are rolled out.
where are you collecting these reports and what has been reported already?!?

Has this been reported?
The site is majorly screwed up, and it doesn't look like there is much in the way of quality control.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
I'll repost my reply to this copypasta from the other thread, for visibilit's sake:

As you may know, we have been migrating our sites over to Google Cloud
No, no one mentioned this. A courtesy message in advance would have been nice.

in order to help with outages and site speed, as well as added security.
Has security been an issue?

Was this change also, by coincidence, much cheaper than running your own servers?

While doing this change, we are also converting the site to https. which you can read more about here https://techterms.com/definition/https
1 - We are posting in a PUBLIC forum. End-to-end encryption to make sure sensitive data isn't intercepted by unauthorized third parties is silly, they'd intercept the data we're posting, again, PUBLICLY. This isn't a social network, yet?

2 - We do not make transactions, there's nothing for sale. Unless plans have changed that we're not aware of?

3 - Could you please identify, on the record, what your future plans are for that would necessitate HTTPS on the forums? I don't think anyone in the community has called for any changes that require them.

You may have noticed these changes may be causing some site issues.
We have noticed that entire months worth of threads are gone. Threads have no content. People's posts and edits are disappearing. Images won't load.

This isn't like "Occasionally the smilies aren't showing", or "Sometimes my login kicks me out and I have to enter my password again". Everything that makes a forum a forum is currently broken.

That's not "may be causing" or "some issues". Please don't trivialize the scope of this.

We are working with Google and VB to help us find long term solutions to these issues instead of bandage fixes and patches that seem to break more than they repair.
1 - That's great. But can you just put things back the way they were so you're not sandboxing with a live community and wrecking everything?

2 - Are there backups of the missing content?

We understand that this is impacting your experience on the site, and we hope you understand that we are working on addressing all issue. We apologize for any inconvenience, and hope to have the forums back up and running asap.
1 - Why was this migration done without warning (so we could keep an eye on it) and without testing ahead of time to ensure this wouldn't happen?

2 - Do you have a timeline for when the forums will be functional again?

3 - These kinds of things not happening are exactly why Vertical Scope was trusted to keep the forums running.

4 - This wasn't a problem that happened on its own, inaction didn't cause this problem, you made a choice and it broke the entire community.

5 - Why has it taken 10 days to even dignify the community with a response?
 

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Yes, still having issues!
All or most of my threads are STILL gone/suppressed.
Is my stuff/information (& everyone else's too) gone forever?
Any progress? (NONE IS VISABLE OR HAS BEEN REPORTED)




Why is this issue selective?
Why can I still access this thread (& a few others)?


Isn't this a (supposed) professional "Forum operating company"?
How can you have a "crash" like this going on for days/weeks?
If I ran my company like this
...I would be out of business!


Visited my page yesterday?


I am Kevin aka Functional Artist
 

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The ENTIRE GARAGE is gone- and it's one of the most useful and most visited parts of this site. It comes up as a dead link!

Every day that your techs spend not solving this is another bunch of users who bail and who will never come back. And that would be a terrible shame!
 

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Unfortunately, our tech team has been beyond swamped but they are actively working to resolve every single issue.

I am truly sorry for the delays.

- Cricket
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Frankly I think that this is a squeaky wheel gets the grease situation. Vertical Scope mutilated some 30 different forums. Ours was more unique than others, what with the Garage section and all that.

Things you can do:

1 - Any ad that loads, contact that company and say that the company they're advertising with has butchered the community they're advertising on, and been largely unresponsive to questions and fixing it. Ask them to contact Vertical Scope and ask for accountability or otherwise show their support for the community.

2 - Make a report about what is wrong. The garage being nuked and a year worth of content missing are the top of my priority, but, pick what makes sense for you.

You can leave feedback: https://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/sendmessage.php <-- Here unless anyone else has a better way of submitting an error report? They don't even have an obvious way of sending in issues.

Perhaps if our community is the most vocal about fixes being implemented, they will put resources into making it happen rather than continuing to say "sorry" with no explanation, timeline, or justification.

When your company specializes in forum administration and you make a change that destroys them for 2 weeks with no end in sight, there needs to be something done. Hire more people, outsource the work to someone who knows what they're doing, etc.
 

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My job is to build, maintain and support a collection of webapps used to support business processes. I have way fewer users than this forum.

If I'd screwed up this badly, I'd be reverting to a backup as soon as the magnitude was realised. I wouldn't have been allowed to start the change without documenting the risks involved, the steps for deployment and rollback, and the tests to be done for each step.

You're shit at your job.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
I'd be reverting to a backup as soon as the magnitude was realised.
It's been two weeks and I haven't heard anyone from Vertical Scope use the word "backup". I've heard many of us ask about it, and timeslines for it to be restored... and, nothing. They say "fixes" and "issues", but no one has acknowledged the missing content.

... I'm half thinking they don't have one.

I think with how ignorant they are about their own communities, I bet they don't even know what the "Garage" section was, or know where it went.

Again, no one has acknowledged it at all, not in service requests, not the 4 various admins who've posted under the VSAdmin account.

I'm happy to be wrong, but it seems like no one knows what's going on. Admins are just giving empty platitudes about hard work and patience, techs aren't saying anything, and, in 2 weeks nothing has been fixed.
 

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1 - We are posting in a PUBLIC forum. End-to-end encryption to make sure sensitive data isn't intercepted by unauthorized third parties is silly, they'd intercept the data we're posting, again, PUBLICLY. This isn't a social network, yet?
You still need to give it your login credentials, and google is going to start blocking non https sites because it is archaic and insecure (and often slower nowadays)
 

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Hi Kevin, Have visited your site; sadly many more will drift away. Please continue to post alternative sites ( until you are silenced) because this one has gone downhill for the last three years at least.:(
 

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Discussion Starter #15
I entered a support ticket last week and finally got a response. Basically a zero-effort, ignorant reply.

Here's what I wrote:

"The entire "Garage" section is missing as are the last 12 months of threads.

I would like an answer as to whether there were backups, and if so when they will be restored."


And here is the reply:

Angela B. replied:
Thank you for your email. Due to a high volume of customer support related inquiries, your wait time has been longer than usual. I am sorry for any inconveniences this may be causing.

Are you still experiencing these issues?


...

Didn't even attempt to investigate or answer the issue.

1 - She seems to think this is my personal issue or a bug, like, my particular account can't access the Garage section, rather than it being completely gone.

2 - 5 seconds of "I'll actually click on the website and check for myself what he's describing" could have answered her question.

3 - Empty, useless platitudes. "Thank you for your email" Oh yes, you're very welcome. Then a standard phone tech "due to the higher volume of calls" horseshit, to explain why it took so long to reply. Empty apology about "inconvenience.

4 - Completely ignored my actual questions about whether there are backups and when they will be restored.

...

It looks like an automated form letter to be honest. Like, no matter what you send in, literally every response is to wait a few days, stall and say it's higher volume, and then stall for a bunch more days asking if I'm still having the issue. Probably no one even read it.

I've decided to abandon this forum. and I'm open to suggestions on other forums that could become the focal point for future DIY Electric Car discussions
This community has by far the most momentum and it would be a shame to abandon it wholesale. Or to further fragment the DIY car community. Because of it's search momentum, most people will still be coming here to find and discuss this content. I think if we move, both communities will fail.

What I think we should look into is, once they've restored the forums as much as they're going to and we see what damage was irrevocably done, ask/demand for them to release our community back to us and let us host it ourselves. And if not, shame them and their advertisers until they do, if that's what we decide.

It seems to be a fairly trivial thing and several members have mentioned they'd be willing to host/administer them.

I dunno, that's my two cents. Coming up on 3 weeks with literally zero improvement, zero meaningful communication beyond "patience" "hard work" etc. Vertical Scope clearly can't be trusted with this community.
 

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Is there anyone here capable and motivated to start a new forum? All my posts are gone and I can't see most of the ones I want to see. Unfortunately, I haven't the knowledge to do it.
 

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capable, sure, but probably anyone who can DIY an electric car can slap a web blog together too, probably decentralized is better in retrospect.

motivated? Well there was a lot of good stuff archived here, by people who tried to help others and show off their stuff, and who knows how much is gone for good now.

I suppose a custom web scraper could determine the magnitude of the issue, but it broke because the folks who bought the site did a shit job keeping up with the web, and they have millions of dollars and numerous employees at their disposal, and they need to get their shit together if this is going to be their business model, or they should sell it to someone who gives a damn.

currently it is valued at $1,333
https://www.godaddy.com/domain-valu...il=1&tmskey=&domainToCheck=diyelectriccar.com

If someone wants to buy it (and wants to include me in the handoff so I make sure they get everything they need) I'd be glad to assist with the initial setup.

consider also about $150/year for low traffic hosting, and a gutting of all the monitization/tracking stuff. If you want a paypal link that is fine, but I'm not signing on for the rest of that mess.

According to linkedin:
Rob Laidlaw
Founder at VerticalScope Inc.
Cayman Islands <-cough

Considering they just took a $200 million debt in their last funding round in october 2017
http://www.abladvisor.com/news/1287...200mm-senior-credit-facility-to-verticalscope

I doubt $1333 is gonna make a difference to Rob, but if anyone knows the original owner and can get a look at the contract to see if there is anything about not burning the site to the ground as they liquefy everything (I doubt it)...
 

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Discussion Starter #18
currently it is valued at $1,333
Well, "currently" is probably before, y'know, they shat the bed.

And, frankly, the cost to them of keeping the forums with an upset community is going to be a lot higher if we contact advertisers and ask them to stop supporting them.

consider also about $150/year for low traffic hosting, and a gutting of all the monitization/tracking stuff. If you want a paypal link that is fine, but I'm not signing on for the rest of that mess.
An annual "Throw $5 in the hat ya cheapskates" funding drive should easily take care of actual web expenses.
 

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Interesting that now when I log on, I get an pop up for Amazon. I never had that before.



$1333 sounds like a bargain. Pocket change for many people.



About dealing with the technical aspects of running/hosting a site like this, I think you give too much credit to those of us computer luddites who would rather be working with nut/bolts/welders than understanding what goes on in the ethereal computer and internet world. It just ain't going to happen if it were me.


I'd gladly put down some or all of the money needed to buy the site, assuming that was all it took but then I would need all the permissions and pass words and partners to help. How likely would that be to get?
 

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Interesting that now when I log on, I get an pop up for Amazon. I never had that before.
yah, "priorities".

$1333 sounds like a bargain. Pocket change for many people.
$1333 might get you a 1 minute elevator speech with the ceo, where he will laugh and then call security.

Considering they just took a $200 million debt in their last funding round in october 2017
http://www.abladvisor.com/news/1287...200mm-senior-credit-facility-to-verticalscope

I doubt $1333 is gonna make a difference to Rob, but if anyone knows the original owner and can get a look at the contract to see if there is anything about not burning the site to the ground as they liquefy everything (I doubt it)...
 
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