Warp 9 shorted

3300 Views 9 Replies 5 Participants Last post by dimitri, Mar 25, 2011

F16bmathis

Discussion Starter · Mar 11, 2011

Hey,

Just a quicky for anyone interested. I had a shorted Warp 9. It caused a Curtis controller to fry, and my Manzanita to also fry. Thought it was my battery pack, and it may have been shorted to frame from salt spray, but once the motor got shorted enough, it started frying things.

Anyways, once I found the short on the field coils to the frame and pulled the motor, it was surprisingly easy to tear the thing apart and remove the rotor. Cleaned the case and coils, but the short was still there, so carefully removing the bolts for the field coils, and numbering them so I got everything back in correctly, I pulled the coils and found one with that tape stuff off to one side, and the short / burn through right at that point. Cleaned, re-taped and threw it back together. Short gone! Actually the short went away when I unbolted the third field coil, bolted it back in right away and the short came right back.

It was amazing how easy it was to put back together. Pulled the brushes almost all the way out so the springs would hold them out of the way when putting the rotor back in.

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DavidDymaxion

· #2 · Mar 11, 2011

Awesome you could fix that. I might have to pull my motor apart, glad to hear it was doable.

F16bmathis said:
Hey,

Just a quicky for anyone interested. I had a shorted Warp 9. It caused a Curtis controller to fry, and my Manzanita to also fry. Thought it was my battery pack, and it may have been shorted to frame from salt spray, but once the motor got shorted enough, it started frying things.

Anyways, once I found the short on the field coils to the frame and pulled the motor, it was surprisingly easy to tear the thing apart and remove the rotor. Cleaned the case and coils, but the short was still there, so carefully removing the bolts for the field coils, and numbering them so I got everything back in correctly, I pulled the coils and found one with that tape stuff off to one side, and the short / burn through right at that point. Cleaned, re-taped and threw it back together. Short gone! Actually the short went away when I unbolted the third field coil, bolted it back in right away and the short came right back.

It was amazing how easy it was to put back together. Pulled the brushes almost all the way out so the springs would hold them out of the way when putting the rotor back in.

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JRoque

· #3 · Mar 11, 2011

F16bmathis said:
I pulled the coils and found one with that tape stuff off to one side

Hi. Was that a solder joint that became exposed or somewhere down the wire the enamel scraped off? Hopefully the replacement tape is high insulation and high temperature rated. Nevertheless, excellent that you could fix that yourself. The Soliton gods might be frowning at how a controller can't protect itself from overcurrent... Are you planning to tackle that next?

JR

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F16bmathis

Discussion Starter · #4 · Mar 14, 2011

JRoque said:
Hi. Was that a solder joint that became exposed or somewhere down the wire the enamel scraped off? Hopefully the replacement tape is high insulation and high temperature rated. Nevertheless, excellent that you could fix that yourself. The Soliton gods might be frowning at how a controller can't protect itself from overcurrent... Are you planning to tackle that next?

JR

It wasn't a joint. It was just an edge of the coil. The insulating material wasn't correctly placed squarely under the coil, so the sparks found a path to the frame.

The controller was a Curtis, upgraded to 1000 amps. It probably didn't help the short, and might have not have blown if not for the short. I'll never know. I have my Zilla installed now, motor not shorted using A/C motor tape we use at Coca-Cola when repairing A/C motors. Probably the same stuff.

Trucks running fine, nothing more to tackle. Well... other than the MiniBMS's I blew when trying to wire up the circuits that shut off my charger. One of the relayed wires touched the pack, sparked and now there's more smoke getting let out of the boards. The relays show high ohms on several boards, and the end board's buzzer is on constantly.

Whatever, the charger is set to turn off when the pack is full. I might have to install my WICOM BMS sooner than I wanted. Just involves removing some panels on the side of the battery pack, and a crapload of wiring!

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dimitri

· #5 · Mar 14, 2011

Sorry to hear you went thru all that trouble.

One piece of advice , isolate that damn charger from the chassis. Mount it on rubber standoffs, or use nylon bolts, etc. Do not let charger's case contact your chassis. This is primary reason why you keep blowing your BMS boards. Obviously its not related to motor shorting, but it keeps adding up to your troubles.

Manzanita connects its case, which is connected to AC neutral, to your 12V ground ( chassis ), which removes isolation between high and low voltage circuits. Without such isolation, any other conductive path ( salt, wire short, etc ) completes the circuit and blows stuff up.

Oh, and don't work on the car while charging and disconnect the pack from everything else when working on BMS connections.

BTW, since I sympathize with your troubles, I'd like to offer free repair of your BMS boards, you'd just pay for shipping. Send me all failed boards and I will fix them for you.

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F16bmathis

Discussion Starter · #6 · Mar 14, 2011

dimitri said:
Sorry to hear you went thru all that trouble.

One piece of advice , isolate that damn charger from the chassis. Mount it on rubber standoffs, or use nylon bolts, etc. Do not let charger's case contact your chassis. This is primary reason why you keep blowing your BMS boards. Obviously its not related to motor shorting, but it keeps adding up to your troubles.

Manzanita connects its case, which is connected to AC neutral, to your 12V ground ( chassis ), which removes isolation between high and low voltage circuits. Without such isolation, any other conductive path ( salt, wire short, etc ) completes the circuit and blows stuff up.

Oh, and don't work on the car while charging and disconnect the pack from everything else when working on BMS connections.

BTW, since I sympathize with your troubles, I'd like to offer free repair of your BMS boards, you'd just pay for shipping. Send me all failed boards and I will fix them for you.

Hey Dimitri!

I allready isolated the charger. I mounted it on plywood, and installed nylon bolts attaching it to that wood.

When this started happening, originally, I was going to work on it while charging and decided to check for a V diff by using a wrench and got alot of sparks for a sec, so since then, I have decided not to work on it while charging. Though the V diff is not there anymore, its the safe thing to do.

I appreciate your offer for free repair, but its really my fault. I was installing the wires for the relays and I was using my wire strippers to "squeeze" the connector over the spade, works great until I touched it to the shunting resistor and the spade connector. Sparks! I checked ohms across the relays and bypassed the bad ones, turned on the charger and one of the boards started to smoke ( I assume for the relay circuitry, cause the BMS portion still works), but I had a constant beep, so either I killed the end board, or more boards have bad relay circuitry. I do have a spare end board (my El-Camino buddy ordered a set and decided against the end board, gave it to me). I figure even though not all units are able to shut off the charger, if I can use the ones that do work, that might keep me close enough, plus the charger is set to shutoff at pack voltage.

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dtbaker

· #7 · Mar 24, 2011

dimitri said:
One piece of advice , isolate that damn charger from the chassis.

I have different make/model charger, but would like to know how to check and make sure I don't have the same hazard. How can I be sure the charger is isolated from HV?

I am assuming this is WHILE the charger is charging, but what would I check for a circuit? one lead to charger case, and the other..... ?

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F16bmathis

Discussion Starter · #8 · Mar 25, 2011

I found out mine was not isolated by using a wrench between the battery pack +? or was it the neg, and to the trucks ground (the charger was bolted to the trucks frame) and I got a huge spark.

I'd suggest you turn your charger on and use a Fluke Meter or simular and check for AC voltage from + to frame and - to frame, check for DC also.

I re-mounted my charger using nylon bolts against the carpeting on the rear of the cab

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dtbaker

· #9 · Mar 25, 2011

yikes!
I will go check for sure!

I have been under the hood a LOT lately with charger running as I was measuring cell voltages during the balancing process. So, I am either really lucky, or the Elcons are isolated.

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dimitri

· #10 · Mar 25, 2011

dtbaker said:
yikes!
I will go check for sure!

I have been under the hood a LOT lately with charger running as I was measuring cell voltages during the balancing process. So, I am either really lucky, or the Elcons are isolated.

Elcons ARE in fact isolated, so you are OK there.

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