[voltmatic automaton]

So here I am typing away and I am at the crossroads that I believe all of us face eventually, to pack it in....or soldier on.

EVers, I recently upgraded my charger setup and charged my pack. Things were going great for about 18 miles and my salvaged/homebuilt controller gave up the ghost.

I think it's time to sell up and move on...

Here's my list of depression inducing incidents and their constant grind to the point that I'm contemplating this move,

My build was going fine, all parts bought and accounted for whe i started in 2008

The 2 points of purchase that should NOT have been done in hindsight are the following;

Purchasing a Logisystems controller
Purchasing a Quick Charge charger (which was underpowered but not advertised as such)

The Controller blew out 5 times with the shortest wait being a week, the longest being...longer... the time and effort to pull the unit out, send it off, get it back, reinstall, just to drive 5 miles and have it blow up again...rinse and repeat.

How about the non mentioned issues of towing the car back home...over and over again.Feeling like a failure because people ask how your car is going and you try to avoid answering the question...oh its parked in the drive way collecting tree sap..

How about the fact that in 2 years of ownership of an EV that the car has seen only about 600 miles of actual use.

my salvage of the last controller logisystems sent me let the car run longer than anything they ever sent, but only after i built the control portion and married it to their power stage.

I succesfully get the controller working better and the charger gives it up...finally giving in to the fact that it was under sized for the pack....

Back and forth back and forth......

This was an interesting experiment...but this hobby is just that...a hobby....one that is simply too expensive for me to keep fishing out money for especially to be ripped off by crooked dealers...inept manufacturers...

and time....TIME.... 2 and a half years of sitting and waiting, working in the heat and cold just to wire stuff up...to see it fail a couple of miles later..

I will tug the car back home tomorrow. Provided it really is the controller that has failed yet again, this vehicle goes on the market.

And I go back to a gas machine...

 

[KiwiEV]

Oh man, I really feel for you, it sounds like you've been through EV hell.

Can I suggest putting the car away, having an break away from it all, and come summer time start again - sort of. Perhaps try a Zilla or Curtis controller. Curtis may be kinda boring, but I remember Bob from EV America telling me they only have a 3% failure rate. That's not bad considering they have no control over the installation.

Still, the last thing you want to hear right now is "You should have done this or that" etc, so put it all down to a learning experience and have another go in the next season.

Don't give up yet mate, you'll get there, just have a rest first.

 

[Guest]

Purchasing a Quick Charge charger (which was underpowered but not advertised as such)

Mine has kept my pack fully charged just fine. What setting do you have your quick charge charger set at? You do know there are a few to choose from. Nice set of mix and match. Maybe you don't have the settings right for your batteries. The Logisystems controller is a mistake but I am quite sure the biggest problems lie in the wimpy heat sink and fans the controller has. It needs to have an excellent heat sink and fans to keep it cool. All controllers need a good sink to draw the heat away. It does not matter that the builder says that the sink is good enough. It is just crap. Total crap. I'd bet you would have kept your controller alive with no trouble had the controller had a good heat sink. The new ones they sell today are also too small. The base is thick enough but has no real fins to speak of and what is there is not enough to dissipate the heat. Period.

Deal with these problems and get things set right and I am sure your ride will be right as rain again.

Pete

 

[Qer]

It needs to have an excellent heat sink and fans to keep it cool. All controllers need a good sink to draw the heat away. It does not matter that the builder says that the sink is good enough. It is just crap.

*ahem*

You want some graphs that proves you wrong?

I'd bet you would have kept your controller alive with no trouble had the controller had a good heat sink.

According to Quasar that's not the main issue with the LS:

You want a reliable LogiSystems controller? Take it apart, throw away the control board and fit an OpenRevolt one.
LS can't do current sensing, that's why they blow up. Stick in a Hall sensor and some proper electronics and it will work!

Of course I haven't dismantled an LS myself, but if Quasar and others that has said similar things are right it's no wonder the LS blow up and there's simply no heat sink in the world that can change that. It does amaze me that they don't blow up asap, though. If they don't do proper current sensing they must have some serious cludges in the hardware to avoid the transistors to go all pop-corn first time you hit the throttle.

I agree with KiwiEV, just leave the EV for a while and calm down before you do something drastic. If you still feel like you're fed up with the car after some weeks, so be it, but don't do something immediately that you might regret later.

 

[poprock]

Nil illegitaemi carborundum.

 

[Guest]

*ahem*

You want some graphs that proves you wrong?

Sure thing. I am always up for learning but I know that one of my controllers, not an LS, had no sink except the base it was built on and that went into thermal cut back with in a minute. I then installed a large 3in thick aluminum block to the back of the controller with proper thermal compound and went on my merry way but when I got into town and into some heavy stop and go driving the aluminum block was not enough to dissipate the heat and it went into thermal cutback once again. On long runs on the freeway it was able to keep the controller from going into thermal cutback. I then purchased a nice heat sink with deep fins and a fan that moved large amount of air. I installed it to the controller again with the proper thermal compound and the fan and never ever ever had the controller go into thermal cut back no matter how hard I drove it and no matter how bad the stop and go driving was. I pushed it and pushed it and pushed it even in hot 108 degree days and it never overheated again. That to me is proof positive that a good heat sink is of the utmost importance for any controller than uses air cooling to keep it's cool. The Soliton1 has good fins and fans compared to the LS. Yours also has water cooling ability too. The LS does not. It requires a good sink. I stand by that but your welcome to show some graphs. Do you have graphs of the LS showing it will sink heat away enough to keep it cool?

Now I am not an expert on the building of a controller and will have to take your word on the issues with current sensing.

Pete

 

[dtbaker]

sorry to hear your frustration Voltmatic.... I hope you decide to invest in 'boring' but dependable controller/charger and get back on the road. I have been nothing short of amazed at the lack of excitement I have had with my car so far.... run of the mill curtis 1221c, ADC8" motor, zivan charger all wired up right by the schematic from KTA that came with all my 'stuff'; very boring, but also faultless, conservative, and simple.

 

[Qer]

I know that one of my controllers, not an LS, had no sink except the base it was built on and that went into thermal cut back with in a minute.

We're not talking about cut back here, we're talking about controllers blowing up. That's a hell of a difference. I don't care how wimpy your controller were without a heat sink, it was obviously compethent enough to protect itself when you overheated it. You bought yourself a controller with a too low continuous current for the vehicle of your choise and it responded with derating the current, nothing wrong there (except perhaps that manufacturers should really specify the continuous current their products can handle).

Saying stuff like:

I am quite sure the biggest problems lie in the wimpy heat sink and fans the controller has.

is contra productive. Smacking a heat sink to a Logisystems would possibly make it survive longer, but since the design is obviously flawed (I think it's safe to draw that conclusion after all those stories about controllers blowing up) it would still not make it reliable. It would still pretty much be a question of when, not if, it'd blow up and odds are that it would on a hot summer day, on an uphill slope, when the car carried some extra load or a combination of circumstances that together pushed the controller too hard until it let out the magic blue smoke.

Bad hardware is bad for the whole EV-community because it gives the EV's a rumour of not being reliable (I can just imagine what voltmatic automatons neighbours think...) and it makes people like voltmatic automaton give up and throw in the spanner which will add to the rumour that EV's are just toys. And that's what really piss me off with products like the Logisystems, they break peoples dreams and give EV's a bad rumour.

Oh, and about:

It does not matter that the builder says that the sink is good enough. It is just crap. Total crap.

See for yourself:

http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums/showthread.php/4-degrees-uphill-slope-41819.html

Over 500 Ampere for over 40 seconds, air cooling only. Is that crap too?

 

[Guest]

Not doubting the quality of the controller and u agree that it gives a bad rap to conversions. There is no controversy with the Soliton1 either but you must admit it has a very large amount of sink available to dissipate heat.

Best bet is to either install an extra sink to extend the life of the controller and save the money for a real controller.

I have always liked the performance and nice graph.

 

[DIYguy]

It's not what happens to us in life that defines us... it's what we do about it that matters.

You'll get little sympathy from me. It's not that I don't feel bad for you.... it's just that sympathy does nothing for you. What I think doesn't matter.
YOU decide what you achieve in life. Suck it up, and do what you need to do. The most successful people aren't successful because they never fail at anything, conversely, they are the ones who are not afraid to fail...but look at it all like a PROCESS.... not the end of something.

I like to think of hockey as an analogy to a lot of life's challenges. You get knocked on your ass a lot. You get punched in face sometimes. You fail (to score) a lot more than you succeed. What is important, is that you don't give up. Hockey requires some skill...but more importantly, the best players possess a desire to succeed above all else.
So, get off your ass. Don't wine about it. Or if you can't play hockey anymore... give up.

 

[ngrimm]

I put my 72 Toyota conversion away last fall thinking of quiting and going back to ice. I bought an 88 Bronco II that had been parked six years with a broken transmission flexplate. After fixing that I had to replace the in tank fuel pump. A couple intake valves would intermittently hang open and let the pushrods fall off. About 10 times pulling the valve cover. Two injectors started sticking, the water pump went out, the heater core and radiator started leaking. My wife and I had to walk a couple miles home just last week when the inertia switch quit. Then the gas gauge quit for the third time which is bad since it is averaging less than 12 mpg. The electric truck is looking pretty good right now.

 

[piotrsko]

just FYI: the ranger did approximately the same except to the tune of about 2 grand USD. In the mean time it sits awaiting more USD to convert.

It is my stubborn project for FY 2010/11. It WILL be an electric vehicle, or will be buried with me as an ICE.

My $.02 your mileage may vary.

 

[ruckus]

Bumm Deal

But let's look on the positive side:

1. You actually converted a car and got it to work without electrocuting yourself. (Better than me at this point). Pat yourself on the back.

2. You haven't said anything about blowing up your batteries. Seems like that is the real $$$ here. Count your lucky stars.

3. If it was easy, everybody would do it. You are almost there. A new controller will likely fix you up.

Hang in there.

 

[KiwiEV]

1. You actually converted a car and got it to work without electrocuting yourself. (Better than me at this point). Pat yourself on the back.
Hang in there.

Hahaha! Well said!

My philosophy on failure is to get upset & throw my toys out of the cot, then take a break, then try again later. Works every time!