[Woodsmith]

Right, having started one project with the MR2 I have decided to start a second project as a learning platform.

I figured I'd take a leaf from Jimdear's book and build a sort of tractor type thing. With no need to be road legal I can do pretty much as I please.

So far I have collected together the following:
Lada Niva transfer box

6 1/2" golf buggy motor

Some 1/2" chain, 38 tooth sprocket and 12 tooth sprocket
Curtis 1214 36-48v controller
Land Rover discovery front axle
10m 35mm welding cable.

The motor didn't have a drive end cap so I made a wooden one (thanks for the nudge on that one Simon).

It also had a female shaft which seems to be a 3/4" 10 spline SAE keyspline. I couldn't find one of them so I made one.
I turned the major and minor diameters and swept the shaft back to full size to reduce stress risers from forming.

I then scribed the dimensions of the splines using the 60 tooth gear on the lathe as an index.

I then used a cutting disc in an angle grinder to cut the splines gaps.

And with a bit of fettling it fitted.

When I know what is happening on the other end of the shaft I will then heat treat it and it might then last a little while for playing.

The plan was to use the transfer box sideways as a transaxle with the locking diff in it. However, there is very little clearance around the input flange for a large sprocket to be fitted to bring the ratio down.
So I bought a Land Rover axle. Being a front axle is no problem as I can narrow it using short half shafts both sides and lock the track rod. If I find a rear axle then I can use the transfer box and make it a 4x4 with narrow axles.
I will keep it 48v to suit both the motor and the controller and use up some of the steel scrap I have floating about to make the chassis and miscellaneous parts.

 

[Woodsmith]

I've also been eyeing up minidiggers but can't find one cheap enough. It should be a fairly straight forward conversion.

 

[Woodsmith]

I'm sure the only thing coming down in cost here is the labour cost. machinery and hire charges don't seem much cheaper yet.

My neighbour needs a minidigger at some point soon so I reckon the prices are stying up until after he has hired one.


I've got to find time to collect the Land Rover axle when the snow clears a bit. I don't even know what the dif ratio is yet. It might be better to just sell it on and get a series rear axle and have a known 4.7:1 diff.

 

[Woodsmith]

I was back and forth in the snow to a neighbours house today as I am cat sitting for ten days. I was thinking that if I had a little tractor running I could be playing with a snow plough!

In the end the cold got the better of me and I brought the cat over to holiday at mine with my cats. Saves me the back and forth nonsense trying to get the cat to toilet outside.

 

[Woodsmith]

Nice job indeed on the shaft Woody, I like your style

Steve

Cheers Steve, Don't tell me, you have a shaft for the motor that you forgot to tell me about.

 

[Woodsmith]

I've just scored 5 Land Rover Defender wheels and tyres for free for this project.

Only down side is that they are down in Bordon Hampshire!

I still need to find another front axle though, preferably with brakes, and a means of getting a 7:1 reduction gearing between the motor and transfer box.

 

[Woodsmith]

Hiya Jim,

I'm using Land Rover parts as I know them and have converted them before. They will be shortened and stripped down to very little so weight won't be that bad, besides, motors can be replaced with bigger items!
I will play it by ear and see how 'big' it gets.

I will start with one narrowed Land Rover axle at the back with a big wheel on each end and small wheels for the front on go kart type steering.
If weight is a problem then I will cut out the centre of the axle and replace it with the transfer box and put the reduction gearing as chains between the transfer box outputs and the drive shafts. Or drop the transfer box and just have a chain drive to the axle flange.

The problem with the transfer box is that the selector shafts poke out right next to the input flange. I would need to extend the drive out beyond the selector shafts.

 

[Woodsmith]

Thanks Jim, I will look into your suggestions further and take the advice of someone wiser then myself.

I do like the look of the cub axle, I will need to see if there is something similar over here. If not I will be making my own. So far the items I have my eye on are free, if a little distant. I accept that free doesn't necessarily mean good.

I found another lawn tractor for £125 but the axle looks very weak so I passed it by.
I'll keep looking.

Have a great Christmas, Jim.

 

[Woodsmith]

Hah! Wisdom comes in many guises as does experience and crap.
The cellar assembly also features in my plans given there is 4" of snow and a peasoup fog outside.

I have been extensively searching Ebay for lack of any other easy options today adn have found an engineless Husqvarna LR110. However, anything with the Cub type axle was intact and costly.

There is always one of these.

 

[Woodsmith]

You notice, Jim, that it is Christmas day and we are online talking little old tractors. If we were local we'd probably be in the shed working on one together.
I have an excuse though that I celebrated on the winter solstice and this week is just time off.

That is a nice selection of machinery you've found there, we just don't have the same sort of thing on Ebay UK. There are a few in Tractor and Machinery and, maybe I'm sad, I bought a copy to read over Christmas!
Most are still either full size tractors or small but fully working and that is reflected in the price.

I must admit that I would like a miniature of one of these:

I don't think a sidewinder set up will be an issue as I can fit bearings on both sides of the drive member on the splined shaft before fitting the motor. Also if something works I can remachine the endcap in aluminium.

I should be careful of not spending too much time and effort making a big fun machine and not enough on learning about the electric motor drive system.

 

[Woodsmith]

I'm sorry, Jim, to hear your illness is preventing you from doing as much as you would like. It will be a shame for you to stop pulling. Your advice will always be valuable even if you no longer compete.
Take care of yourself.

As a sideline (one can't have too many project ideas on the go), I have been doing some calcs and if I used the transfer box as a transaxle for a front drive trike and fitted the chain drive I have of 3.5:1 then I could get a nice 30mph from it with 23" tyres.
If I kept the weight down to 350kg with smooth bodywork plus 48v LiFePO4 pack it will do 30mph at 2.6kW at about 90W/mile.

 

[Woodsmith]

You guys are making me think of possible applications for my warp 13

If you want to run with this, Jack, I'm happy to help.

 

[Woodsmith]

So, having stripped the Land Rover axle and got the innards out to play with I happened across a really cheap 2CV gearbox with inboard disc brakes.

To make things simpler and to save weight I will use the gearbox as it is with the motor on the front and have it bolted to a chassis. I will use the Land Rover stub axles and hubs but nothing else. The diff, axle case, shafts and swivel housings, discs and calipers can all be sold on. The 2CV gear ratios are fairly low too so the motor will easily drive it around slowly.

This makes the fun mechanical bit quicker and easier but will get me to the electrical learning curve more effectively.

The 2CV gearbox could also be recycled into a trike later on though my jury is still out considering the pros and cons for front or rear wheel drive.

 

[Woodsmith]

Woodsmith,

Unless your plywood end cap is only temporary, you might consider coating it with an epoxy paint for oil resistance and putting a stainless band clamp around the circumference to maintain the integrity at the bolt hole locations. It looks good.

Chuck

The end cap is only temporary, I wanted to test run the motor to find out what it would do before committing myself to further work. I will remake it in aluminium when I know what sort of ounting I will need to make with it.
Same with the splined shaft, I may make another or a different shape one yet.

If you feel "the urge" to take a picture - that would be nice .. I am still lurking on this...

Very lax of me.

I hadn't photographed the axle as it was oily and muddy and out doors in the cold.
Then it was in the work shop in bits being washed.
At neither time did I want to get my phone greasy or take my gloves off until the job was done. I will try and post a workshop view this week end.

 

[Woodsmith]

Jim, I'm just playing, I miss playing with automotive bits but I am more used to playing with huge automotive bits. I have culture shock!

A basic compact tractor, even non running, would cost quite a bit more then I have spent so far.

Anyway, photos.

Just a quick shot from each end of the bench.
Stripped down axle, transfer box, 2CV box, buckets of bits.

 

[Woodsmith]

This is what I would have prefered to be working on, the AEC Matador timber tractor I used to have (note the big red estate car parked behind it for scale):

Another previous project I may have posted pics of before:

And the three speed transfer box I built for it:

The transfer box, when complete, probably weighed as much as one of your tractors, Jim!

The bench is only clean and clear because it has only been there for a few weeks.

All this playing is also procrastinating as I am supposed to be writing lesson plans for a history class and waiting for a few more pay cheques before I can get a motor for the MR2.
I am even tempted to use the golf buggy motor and 48v controller on the MR2 just to get it road legal if I haven't got a proper motor for it in the meantime.

 

[Woodsmith]

I've started to clean the 2CV box and have removed the brake calipers, discs and driveshafts.

The calipers are an odd design. The fixing bolts also hold the two sides of the caliper together. So once it is removed it falls apart pushed open by the handbrake/parking brake caliper spring.

Interesting that the drive flange has a locating ring on it but it only locates and centralises the disc. The drive shaft CV joint is only located and centralised by the bolts alone. I guess they had better be a snug fit.

 

[Woodsmith]

I seem to be collecting a lot of cheap mechanical bits.

The latest find is this:

It is the back end of a Ransomes vergecutter and it gives me a two speed transaxle with wheels and hubs and a mount for the motor. The front end has four bolts that will allow a simple front end to be bolted on to take steering and batteries. The ratios are approximately 8.5:1 and 16:1 plus around 3:1 to 4:1 on the pulley.

Now I stop looking and start building, all the other bits will be back on Ebay so I can get some batteries.

The motor will be interchangable from this project to the MR2 to get the MR2 road legal.

 

[Woodsmith]

Cheers Jim.
It only cost me £10 at the scrap metal yard!

I'll look forward to the 13" photos on your thread and some more pulling video.

I have ordered a 22mm thick aluminium plate from Ebay to make a new end cap for the motor.
I figured that if I kept the outside of the plate square then it would give me 4 lugs for bolting down to the adaptor plate on the MR2. It would be bigger then my lathe would chuck but I realised that if I removed the chuck and bolted the plate to the chuck drive plate then I could use the gap in the bed to get 10" diameter swing.

I will be using the short splined shaft I made earlier to take a pulley and I think that if I mounded it between two bearings then there will be no radial load on the motor. It would also allow the motor to be slipped off the shaft to use on the MR2 until it gets its own motor.

I was going to make the front end as, having found a lawn tractor grave yard, the ones available were costly and looked more suited to a child's pedal cart. Any advice would be great as I was going to just make an 'agricutural' center pivot beam axle with simple (and approximate) akerman steering. It will only have a speed of 0.7 and 1.3 mph per 1000rpm in each gear if I use a 4:1 pulley drive.

This week I will be busy as I have to prepare a couple of pieces of my furniture work to be used for a HRH visit to work. I will have a Royal bottom on my chair, signing papers on my table. If it works out it will be a great publicity photo for my website.

 

[Woodsmith]

Woody,

Great news about HRH. Post a picture on this site if you can.

It's a senior HRH too so I am quite nervous in case my stuff isn't up to scratch on the day or security have an issue somewhere.

Sound like you have the motor set up well in hand. what you describe for drive shafting should do the job. Think about an overdrive jackshaft set up to maybe try to get the top speed up around 5mph. Over all it would be more usable. Belt drive should be fine.

I can use a bigger drive pulley to get almost any speed but I was working on 4:1 or 3:1 reduction as a starting point. Also I am not sure what rpm the motor will pull yet.

Couple of questions about the Tractor Thingy (called TT in the future).
General questions:

Does the TT

• Have a real differential? Yes.
• Have any kind of brakes? No, But I was thinking of a transmission brake on the drive pulley or use the plug braking of the controller.
• Have a reverse? No, but I can reverse the motor as the brushes are neutral set for its design voltage.

Questions related to the potential front end:

• What size will the OD of the final rear wheels and tires be? I am thinking of starting off with a set of old 205 55 16" tyres off my car on steel rims giving a 23" diameter but it will depend on getting suitable rims cheap, otherwise whatever else I find.
• What will the center to center width of the final rear tires be? Not sure yet, will see what the wheels are like and then I will make spacers, figuring on about 24" centres to a maximum width of, say, 30".
• What diameter front wheels? I have a pair of 8" diameter trolley wheels or I can use the 15" diameter wheels that came with this axle.
• What is the planned width (center to center of the tires)? As above.

Suggestions:
See if the lawn tractor yard might not have a couple of usable spindles or even a completefront axle with wheel and tires. The spindles alone will save you half of the figuring and work because the ackerman steering offset and KPI is already built into the units.

They are just the budget ride on mower type where an 'L' shaped rod doubles as king pin and axle threaded through folded tin work. The steering is another 'L' shaped rod that gives 2/3 turns lock to lock.

If you are going totally from scratch a good general spec. for the ackerman steering offset is 15 degrees per side and a good general KPI is also 15 degreese. For the standard garden tractor front wheel that will put the SAI contact close to the center of the tire with a 2 degree +- camber.

From there, once you know front and rear tire diameters it is easy to set up caster, trail, camber and SAI.

I know you might be saying, is this needed on something only going am couple of miles an hour? But I bet that in the end it will go faster, plus it will be heavy with the batteries so you might as well make steering as acurate and easy as possible.

A thought:
Check on what if any costs if any are involved import wise if I were to send you a pair of spindles as a gift. They would probably be classed as used auto parts or some such. I have three or four pair sitting around that I will never use. I don't think the shipping would be too bad. I'll weigh them and see.

Thank you, that would be wonderful. I am sure we can blag customs into letting though a late Christmas present.
I can appreciate the preference for good steering due to the weight and future fun factor so good spindles would be a great starting point.

As far as the Big 13, I guess I better start a build thread. I'll take my camera over with me next week and snap a few of the motor worl we are doing at the shop.

TT forever,
Jim

I will look forward to it.