[frankie-eight-days]

Hi all!

Looking to buy a Remy HVH-90DOM ASAP.

Might be a long shot, but I belong to a student group and we need a 90DOM in 4-5 weeks.

If anybody has one they'd be will to sell, or could offer any advice that would be great!

 

[frodus]

Just the core itself? or the finished motor in an oil cooled enclosure?

 

[frankie-eight-days]

Hi Travis.

Sorry for the vague post (was in a hurry last night when I uploaded it).

We would be indeed looking for the cartridge as well as the oil cooled enclosure. Are the cartridges swapped out of the cases often? I'm somewhat new to the whole DIY EV thing (though I really enjoy this forum).

Thanks - Frank

 

[frodus]

I wouldn't recommend it. Not even sure they sell the enclosure separately. Get the assembled version with the oil cooled enclosure. Regardless, those HVH motors are going to have lead times associated that are outside your 4-5 week requirement.

What controller are you expecting to use?

 

[frankie-eight-days]

Thanks for the reply. We currently have one ordered from the manufacturer but the lead time is a little long (it's still 7 weeks out + shipping). We had another second hand motor lined up but it fell through. Wanted to see here if someone also had a spare/used one that we could purchase. They are a little harder to come by than the SOM version!!

We have a Rinehart controller! Very excited to see it in action.

 

[frodus]

You don't see the DOM's come up very often, if at all. SOM's come up, but they're usually the older ones.

 

[brian_]

We would be indeed looking for the cartridge as well as the oil cooled enclosure. Are the cartridges swapped out of the cases often?

No. The HVH motors were originally designed as components of a hybrid system (the GM Two-Mode, also used by BMW and Chrysler), so they were housed in the transmission case rather than having their own case. The manufacturer (currently BorgWarner) still offers them as a cartridge for that reason, and most motors which appear in the EV conversion market seem to be cartridges in AM Racing housings, and were even before BorgWarner bought AMR. Once assembled, it's hard to imagine a reason to ever replace the cartridge in a housing, and it would seem unlikely and overly expensive to buy a new housing for a cartridge if changing to an application which required a different housing.

Other than some random project builder who changed plans, the only other likely source of an HVH motor lying around would be one of the retailers who has carried AMR motors (directly or purchased through others) - EV West always shows some on the website (don't know if they actually have any, and they are probably SOM), and the only other source I've noticed is ElMoFo. Apparently despite the purchase of AMR and Rinehart by BorgWarner (forming Casadia Motion), EVDrive is still supposed to be the exclusive distributor of AMR motors; in their product line your target motor would be a "EVD250-90P1". I assume they don't have stock because if they did Hollie Maea would have presumably responded to this thread.

 

[Frank]

I have an SOM but the DOM's seem rare.

 

[coleasterling]

Anyone ever confirm which exact motor is in the Tahoe Hybrid trans? I tore one apart and sold the cartridges, but there were no markings that meant anything to me on them.

 

[frodus]

No. The HVH motors were originally designed as components of a hybrid system (the GM Two-Mode, also used by BMW and Chrysler), so they were housed in the transmission case rather than having their own case. The manufacturer (currently BorgWarner) still offers them as a cartridge for that reason, and most motors which appear in the EV conversion market seem to be cartridges in AM Racing housings, and were even before BorgWarner bought AMR. Once assembled, it's hard to imagine a reason to ever replace the cartridge in a housing, and it would seem unlikely and overly expensive to buy a new housing for a cartridge if changing to an application which required a different housing.

Other than some random project builder who changed plans, the only other likely source of an HVH motor lying around would be one of the retailers who has carried AMR motors (directly or purchased through others) - EV West always shows some on the website (don't know if they actually have any, and they are probably SOM), and the only other source I've noticed is ElMoFo. Apparently despite the purchase of AMR and Rinehart by BorgWarner (forming Casadia Motion), EVDrive is still supposed to be the exclusive distributor of AMR motors; in their product line your target motor would be a "EVD250-90P1". I assume they don't have stock because if they did Hollie Maea would have presumably responded to this thread.

It's likely true that you wouldn't be able to easily swap out cores from an existing enclosure without a bit of work.

As far as packaging, the HVH250's are available as AMR motors, as Cores and as BorgWarner cores inside of a BorgWarner enclosure in both water and oil cooled versions. They do are starting to roll out the Integrated Electric Drive Module that is a gearbox and motor in one unit:
https://www.borgwarner.com/newsroom/press-releases/2016/12/06/borgwarner-launches-its-first-integrated-electric-drive-module-for-the-electric-vehicle-market

For just a motor, here's an SOM on ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/i/191607008892?chn=ps

Datasheet shows BW enclosures as well:
https://cdn.borgwarner.com/docs/default-source/default-document-library/remy-pds---hvh250-115-sheet-euro-pr-3-16.pdf?sfvrsn=ad42cd3c_11


Side note: I work for BorgWarner at Cascadia Motion as of the beginning of March. We do sell these, but lead-times are likely too long for their needs.

 

[brian_]

As far as packaging, the HVH250's are available as AMR motors, as Cores and as BorgWarner cores inside of a BorgWarner enclosure in both water and oil cooled versions.

Yes, but for a homebuilder there seem to be essentially only cores salvaged from hybrid systems, or AMR complete motors. Other than AM Racing (now part of BorgWarner's Cascadia Motion division), has there ever been a retail source of HVH motors, for someone not tooling up a production vehicle?

They do are starting to roll out the Integrated Electric Drive Module that is a gearbox and motor in one unit:
https://www.borgwarner.com/newsroom/press-releases/2016/12/06/borgwarner-launches-its-first-integrated-electric-drive-module-for-the-electric-vehicle-market

I assume that BorgWarner bought the Remy HVH motor line to combine with the gearboxes that they were already building (BorgWarner's traditional product line) to be able to offer an integrated drive unit... which is intended for sale to auto manufacturers, not DIY converters. That makes sense; more recently Dana (well known mostly for their axles) bought TM4 as a their motor source.

If anyone wants one of these eDM units, I expect that they'll have to wait until they see them in production vehicles, and salvage from one of those (or buy it as a replacement part from the auto manufacturer's dealers). So far, one would need to be in China to do this, as one would be looking for an Ora brand EV from Great Wall Motors.

For just a motor, here's an SOM on ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/i/191607008892?chn=ps

Datasheet shows BW enclosures as well:
https://cdn.borgwarner.com/docs/default-source/default-document-library/remy-pds---hvh250-115-sheet-euro-pr-3-16.pdf?sfvrsn=ad42cd3c_11

I wonder what all of those Remy and BorgWarner complete motors were built for, since I've never heard of a production vehicle actually using one. Then there's the question of how they have been distributed... the one on eBay claims to be new, so how did the seller end up with it? Cascadia Motion sells them, but the Cascadia Motion website contains nothing useful, and certainly nothing about how one might buy a complete BorgWarner (not AMR) motor, other than a note buried in a Rinehart controllers page to "Contact the factory for more information". This is like a throwback to the days of searching the Yellow Pages for companies that might deal with the desired product, then calling them.

 

[brian_]

Anyone ever confirm which exact motor is in the Tahoe Hybrid trans? I tore one apart and sold the cartridges, but there were no markings that meant anything to me on them.

I don't know offhand, but if you kept the dimensions you could figure it out: the first number (250 for the common cores) indicates the diameter in millimetres and the other number (90 or 115 for the 250 series) indicates the length in millimetres (presumably of the rotor face, not the overall package). To determine whether it is SOM or DOM would require examination of the winding configuration, or electrical measurements if you have specs for comparison.

Previous discussion:
Tahoe Hybrid Remy HVH250 - Model# & Voltage Rating

 

[frodus]

Yes, but for a homebuilder there seem to be essentially only cores salvaged from hybrid systems, or AMR complete motors. Other than AM Racing (now part of BorgWarner's Cascadia Motion division), has there ever been a retail source of HVH motors, for someone not tooling up a production vehicle?

I've seen plenty of enclosed Remy motors for sale used on CL, Ebay, and this forum. The core is just the internals, and I don't see those nearly as often as enclosed versions. In fact, there's two HVH250 on ebay right now (SOM's).

For those wondering, this is a core:

I assume that BorgWarner bought the Remy HVH motor line to combine with the gearboxes that they were already building (BorgWarner's traditional product line) to be able to offer an integrated drive unit... which is intended for sale to auto manufacturers, not DIY converters. That makes sense; more recently Dana (well known mostly for their axles) bought TM4 as a their motor source.

Probably accurate. DIY may not be the target demographic.

Dana recently bought SME.

If anyone wants one of these eDM units, I expect that they'll have to wait until they see them in production vehicles, and salvage from one of those (or buy it as a replacement part from the auto manufacturer's dealers). So far, one would need to be in China to do this, as one would be looking for an Ora brand EV from Great Wall Motors.

They're available, you'd just have to buy them new.

For salvage, yeah, looks like sourcing from China.

I wonder what all of those Remy and BorgWarner complete motors were built for, since I've never heard of a production vehicle actually using one. Then there's the question of how they have been distributed... the one on eBay claims to be new, so how did the seller end up with it? Cascadia Motion sells them, but the Cascadia Motion website contains nothing useful, and certainly nothing about how one might buy a complete BorgWarner (not AMR) motor, other than a note buried in a Rinehart controllers page to "Contact the factory for more information". This is like a throwback to the days of searching the Yellow Pages for companies that might deal with the desired product, then calling them

I think you're right, in that they were built to feed the Asian car market, but that is changing.

Remember, Cascadia was just purchased mid January, and the website covers mostly inverters at the moment. The purchase acquired AMRacing and Rinehart, all in one business. Documentation and product line will change, just not overnight.

I was just clarifying your statement about only Remy HVH cores or AMR enclosures/cores being available. I wanted to add that Remy also produces enclosures for the HVH250, and I've seen dozens listed for sale in various places over the last couple months, both new and used.

They're out there, and they're not cores or AMRacing. I've been looking because I'm also hoping to come across a HVH250 90 or 115 DOM for a personal project.

 

[Frank]

Vendors such as New Eagle used to (?) sell Remy. I heard that some farm equipment used to use them but I have no details.

Sent from my SM-T380 using Tapatalk

 

[brian_]

I've seen plenty of enclosed Remy motors for sale used on CL, Ebay, and this forum ... In fact, there's two HVH250 on ebay right now (SOM's).

I was just clarifying your statement about only Remy HVH cores or AMR enclosures/cores being available. I wanted to add that Remy also produces enclosures for the HVH250, and I've seen dozens listed for sale in various places over the last couple months, both new and used.

They're out there, and they're not cores or AMRacing. I've been looking because I'm also hoping to come across a HVH250 90 or 115 DOM for a personal project.

I realize that Remy/BorgWarner housed motors have long existed - the question is how anyone has been getting them. If you call just about any automotive or major industrial supplier to buy one of their products, they tell you to go to a distributor... and when you call a distributor they tell you to go to a retailer. It's great that some part of BorgWarner (and presumably Remy previously) handled direct sales to the public, but that's not what most people would expect, and it's certainly not encouraged by anything published by BorgWarner.

DIY may not be the target demographic.

Definitely not, and that's perfectly understandable.

Dana recently bought SME.

Interesting. SME Group is the manufacturer of the motor sold by NetGain as the HyPer 9. This enables a broader line of integrated drive products, just like the BorgWarner eDM... but that doesn't mean they'll be available at retail.

Similarly Bosch (who is obviously able to build motors, but added the gearbox) has multiple variationso of the drive unit idea - with varying levels of component integration - and supplies the Fiat 500e unit. GKN (a mechanical drive manufacturer who either expanded into motors or just buys them) offer integrated drive units, including the front axle units in the BMW i8 and Porsche 918 and rear axle unit in the Volvo S90. One version of GKN's eAxle is configured essentially identically to the Chevrolet Bolt drive unit, but I believe GM makes their own. I wouldn't expect to be able to buy a single unit at retail from either of them. Bosch's eAxle web page has a contact phone number and a request form, but I'm guessing they are only looking for sales to OEMs.

They're available, you'd just have to buy them new.

For salvage, yeah, looks like sourcing from China.

If someone wanted to buy new, I don't know how they would find out who to contact. Nothing on the BorgWarner site suggests that a direct purchase is possible, and the Cascadia Motion site doesn't acknowledge the existence BorgWarner (let alone that it's the parent company), the eDrive transmissions, or the eDM product.

Remember, Cascadia was just purchased mid January, and the website covers mostly inverters at the moment. The purchase acquired AMRacing and Rinehart, all in one business. Documentation and product line will change, just not overnight.

There's overnight... then there's three months. I think some companies should seriously consider using one of the free website hosting services if they can't build a web page in months, since any of those free services come with tools that an average person can use to build a site (just for information, not online sales) in a couple of hours... I've done it, as any reasonably computer-literate person can. There's no product documentation to change when all that is changing is the distribution organization - even a Cascadia Motion page linking to the BorgWarner HVH page and listing contact information for ordering would be a quantum leap in functionality.

 

[brian_]

Vendors such as New Eagle used to (?) sell Remy.

New Eagle appears to have all sorts of stuff - I had run across them before, so I'm surprised that I forgot about them. They do list the BorgWarner complete motors, and are current enough that they updated "Remy" to "BorgWarner" (although that acquisition was three years ago):

New Eagle Product Wiki > EV-Components > 3. Electric Motors > 3.2 Remy Motors (Now BorgWarner)​

You need to contact their sales people to create an account to see any detailed information, but they sell several brands of motors... and even list the BW-HVH250-90-DOM specifically. With everything they list, I doubt that most of it would be in stock, but it might be worth asking.

I heard that some farm equipment used to use them but I have no details.

They list some John Deere equipment - maybe that was the agricultural application.

 

[Hollie Maea]

Other than some random project builder who changed plans, the only other likely source of an HVH motor lying around would be one of the retailers who has carried AMR motors (directly or purchased through others) - EV West always shows some on the website (don't know if they actually have any, and they are probably SOM), and the only other source I've noticed is ElMoFo. Apparently despite the purchase of AMR and Rinehart by BorgWarner (forming Casadia Motion), EVDrive is still supposed to be the exclusive distributor of AMR motors; in their product line your target motor would be a "EVD250-90P1". I assume they don't have stock because if they did Hollie Maea would have presumably responded to this thread.

We don't have any stock and won't before the end of July. That's true for everyone including AMR themselves (Cascadia).

As far as the exclusive dealership goes, it's a lot less clear that this deal is going to stick through the new ownership than it was a couple of months ago.

There aren't a lot of Remy housed motors out there. Remy (and later Borg Warner) never seemed to have much of a desire to sell in this form, preferring to sell cartridges. So pickings are slim. Unless you get lucky on EBay, you're probably out of luck until the end of Summer at the earliest.

 

[Frank]

I purchased a DOM from New Eagle 3-4 years ago for my bike. Also it's possible that Rinehart (RMS) sells Parker, that was my understanding a couple of years ago. I'm not familiar with their motors but I'll bet they have something comparable to the HVH250. It would obviously work with their controllers.

The SOM offers more torque but base speed is lower. If I don't sell mine I've been contemplating a 700V application.

 

[frodus]

There's overnight... then there's three months. I think some companies should seriously consider using one of the free website hosting services if they can't build a web page in months, since any of those free services come with tools that an average person can use to build a site (just for information, not online sales) in a couple of hours... I've done it, as any reasonably computer-literate person can. There's no product documentation to change when all that is changing is the distribution organization - even a Cascadia Motion page linking to the BorgWarner HVH page and listing contact information for ordering would be a quantum leap in functionality.

If anyone, including you Brian, has a current need for a product, we'd be more than happy to assist you in getting information.

Right now, there's all of documentation on the site for the controllers. If anything is missing, please let us know.

What we're working on, is getting a list of products from BW that we're able to sell at Cascadia Motion. For instance, we're a different group than Sevcon, so it gets tricky on some of their products. Things like the Remy and BW Gearboxes are within our same group, but we still have to get lead times from the factory, pricing guides, documentation, technical data, etc. before we start to roll out to our site.

It's definitely happening though.