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No. The HVH motors were originally designed as components of a hybrid system (the GM Two-Mode, also used by BMW and Chrysler), so they were housed in the transmission case rather than having their own case. The manufacturer (currently BorgWarner) still offers them as a cartridge for that reason, and most motors which appear in the EV conversion market seem to be cartridges in AM Racing housings, and were even before BorgWarner bought AMR. Once assembled, it's hard to imagine a reason to ever replace the cartridge in a housing, and it would seem unlikely and overly expensive to buy a new housing for a cartridge if changing to an application which required a different housing.We would be indeed looking for the cartridge as well as the oil cooled enclosure. Are the cartridges swapped out of the cases often?
It's likely true that you wouldn't be able to easily swap out cores from an existing enclosure without a bit of work.No. The HVH motors were originally designed as components of a hybrid system (the GM Two-Mode, also used by BMW and Chrysler), so they were housed in the transmission case rather than having their own case. The manufacturer (currently BorgWarner) still offers them as a cartridge for that reason, and most motors which appear in the EV conversion market seem to be cartridges in AM Racing housings, and were even before BorgWarner bought AMR. Once assembled, it's hard to imagine a reason to ever replace the cartridge in a housing, and it would seem unlikely and overly expensive to buy a new housing for a cartridge if changing to an application which required a different housing.
Other than some random project builder who changed plans, the only other likely source of an HVH motor lying around would be one of the retailers who has carried AMR motors (directly or purchased through others) - EV West always shows some on the website (don't know if they actually have any, and they are probably SOM), and the only other source I've noticed is ElMoFo. Apparently despite the purchase of AMR and Rinehart by BorgWarner (forming Casadia Motion), EVDrive is still supposed to be the exclusive distributor of AMR motors; in their product line your target motor would be a "EVD250-90P1". I assume they don't have stock because if they did Hollie Maea would have presumably responded to this thread.
Yes, but for a homebuilder there seem to be essentially only cores salvaged from hybrid systems, or AMR complete motors. Other than AM Racing (now part of BorgWarner's Cascadia Motion division), has there ever been a retail source of HVH motors, for someone not tooling up a production vehicle?As far as packaging, the HVH250's are available as AMR motors, as Cores and as BorgWarner cores inside of a BorgWarner enclosure in both water and oil cooled versions.
I assume that BorgWarner bought the Remy HVH motor line to combine with the gearboxes that they were already building (BorgWarner's traditional product line) to be able to offer an integrated drive unit... which is intended for sale to auto manufacturers, not DIY converters. That makes sense; more recently Dana (well known mostly for their axles) bought TM4 as a their motor source.They do are starting to roll out the Integrated Electric Drive Module that is a gearbox and motor in one unit:
https://www.borgwarner.com/newsroom...-drive-module-for-the-electric-vehicle-market
I wonder what all of those Remy and BorgWarner complete motors were built for, since I've never heard of a production vehicle actually using one. Then there's the question of how they have been distributed... the one on eBay claims to be new, so how did the seller end up with it? Cascadia Motion sells them, but the Cascadia Motion website contains nothing useful, and certainly nothing about how one might buy a complete BorgWarner (not AMR) motor, other than a note buried in a Rinehart controllers page to "Contact the factory for more information". This is like a throwback to the days of searching the Yellow Pages for companies that might deal with the desired product, then calling them.For just a motor, here's an SOM on ebay:
https://www.ebay.com/i/191607008892?chn=ps
Datasheet shows BW enclosures as well:
https://cdn.borgwarner.com/docs/def...115-sheet-euro-pr-3-16.pdf?sfvrsn=ad42cd3c_11
I don't know offhand, but if you kept the dimensions you could figure it out: the first number (250 for the common cores) indicates the diameter in millimetres and the other number (90 or 115 for the 250 series) indicates the length in millimetres (presumably of the rotor face, not the overall package). To determine whether it is SOM or DOM would require examination of the winding configuration, or electrical measurements if you have specs for comparison.Anyone ever confirm which exact motor is in the Tahoe Hybrid trans? I tore one apart and sold the cartridges, but there were no markings that meant anything to me on them.
I've seen plenty of enclosed Remy motors for sale used on CL, Ebay, and this forum. The core is just the internals, and I don't see those nearly as often as enclosed versions. In fact, there's two HVH250 on ebay right now (SOM's).Yes, but for a homebuilder there seem to be essentially only cores salvaged from hybrid systems, or AMR complete motors. Other than AM Racing (now part of BorgWarner's Cascadia Motion division), has there ever been a retail source of HVH motors, for someone not tooling up a production vehicle?
Probably accurate. DIY may not be the target demographic.I assume that BorgWarner bought the Remy HVH motor line to combine with the gearboxes that they were already building (BorgWarner's traditional product line) to be able to offer an integrated drive unit... which is intended for sale to auto manufacturers, not DIY converters. That makes sense; more recently Dana (well known mostly for their axles) bought TM4 as a their motor source.
They're available, you'd just have to buy them new.If anyone wants one of these eDM units, I expect that they'll have to wait until they see them in production vehicles, and salvage from one of those (or buy it as a replacement part from the auto manufacturer's dealers). So far, one would need to be in China to do this, as one would be looking for an Ora brand EV from Great Wall Motors.
I think you're right, in that they were built to feed the Asian car market, but that is changing.I wonder what all of those Remy and BorgWarner complete motors were built for, since I've never heard of a production vehicle actually using one. Then there's the question of how they have been distributed... the one on eBay claims to be new, so how did the seller end up with it? Cascadia Motion sells them, but the Cascadia Motion website contains nothing useful, and certainly nothing about how one might buy a complete BorgWarner (not AMR) motor, other than a note buried in a Rinehart controllers page to "Contact the factory for more information". This is like a throwback to the days of searching the Yellow Pages for companies that might deal with the desired product, then calling them
I've seen plenty of enclosed Remy motors for sale used on CL, Ebay, and this forum ... In fact, there's two HVH250 on ebay right now (SOM's).
I realize that Remy/BorgWarner housed motors have long existed - the question is how anyone has been getting them. If you call just about any automotive or major industrial supplier to buy one of their products, they tell you to go to a distributor... and when you call a distributor they tell you to go to a retailer. It's great that some part of BorgWarner (and presumably Remy previously) handled direct sales to the public, but that's not what most people would expect, and it's certainly not encouraged by anything published by BorgWarner.I was just clarifying your statement about only Remy HVH cores or AMR enclosures/cores being available. I wanted to add that Remy also produces enclosures for the HVH250, and I've seen dozens listed for sale in various places over the last couple months, both new and used.
They're out there, and they're not cores or AMRacing. I've been looking because I'm also hoping to come across a HVH250 90 or 115 DOM for a personal project.
Definitely not, and that's perfectly understandable.DIY may not be the target demographic.
Interesting. SME Group is the manufacturer of the motor sold by NetGain as the HyPer 9. This enables a broader line of integrated drive products, just like the BorgWarner eDM... but that doesn't mean they'll be available at retail.Dana recently bought SME.
If someone wanted to buy new, I don't know how they would find out who to contact. Nothing on the BorgWarner site suggests that a direct purchase is possible, and the Cascadia Motion site doesn't acknowledge the existence BorgWarner (let alone that it's the parent company), the eDrive transmissions, or the eDM product.They're available, you'd just have to buy them new.
For salvage, yeah, looks like sourcing from China.
There's overnight... then there's three months. I think some companies should seriously consider using one of the free website hosting services if they can't build a web page in months, since any of those free services come with tools that an average person can use to build a site (just for information, not online sales) in a couple of hours... I've done it, as any reasonably computer-literate person can. There's no product documentation to change when all that is changing is the distribution organization - even a Cascadia Motion page linking to the BorgWarner HVH page and listing contact information for ordering would be a quantum leap in functionality.Remember, Cascadia was just purchased mid January, and the website covers mostly inverters at the moment. The purchase acquired AMRacing and Rinehart, all in one business. Documentation and product line will change, just not overnight.
New Eagle appears to have all sorts of stuff - I had run across them before, so I'm surprised that I forgot about them. They do list the BorgWarner complete motors, and are current enough that they updated "Remy" to "BorgWarner" (although that acquisition was three years ago):Vendors such as New Eagle used to (?) sell Remy.
They list some John Deere equipment - maybe that was the agricultural application.I heard that some farm equipment used to use them but I have no details.
We don't have any stock and won't before the end of July. That's true for everyone including AMR themselves (Cascadia).Other than some random project builder who changed plans, the only other likely source of an HVH motor lying around would be one of the retailers who has carried AMR motors (directly or purchased through others) - EV West always shows some on the website (don't know if they actually have any, and they are probably SOM), and the only other source I've noticed is ElMoFo. Apparently despite the purchase of AMR and Rinehart by BorgWarner (forming Casadia Motion), EVDrive is still supposed to be the exclusive distributor of AMR motors; in their product line your target motor would be a "EVD250-90P1". I assume they don't have stock because if they did Hollie Maea would have presumably responded to this thread.
If anyone, including you Brian, has a current need for a product, we'd be more than happy to assist you in getting information.There's overnight... then there's three months. I think some companies should seriously consider using one of the free website hosting services if they can't build a web page in months, since any of those free services come with tools that an average person can use to build a site (just for information, not online sales) in a couple of hours... I've done it, as any reasonably computer-literate person can. There's no product documentation to change when all that is changing is the distribution organization - even a Cascadia Motion page linking to the BorgWarner HVH page and listing contact information for ordering would be a quantum leap in functionality.