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  #1  
Old 05-11-2008, 06:13 PM
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michelealexander1991 michelealexander1991 is offline
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Lightbulb Alternators, Free Energy, Perpetual Motion, Over Unity and all that...

Hello,
I was wondering if I could just add an alternator to an ev and get a range extender. The alternator seems like a good idea, even an industrial one, now... I have no knowledge in this area whatsoever, so would anyone enlighten me?

{Note From The Administrators:
This has now become the official thread for all questions relating to using alternators/generators WITHOUT AN EXTERNAL POWER SOURCE. Call it free energy/perpetual motion/ over-unity or whatever you will. If you have a question about a series hybrid or range extender (with an ICE engine) then feel free to ask start a new thread, if you want to know about the other kind then please read this thread and the wiki first before asking questions. Cheers, mattW}

Last edited by mattW; 05-17-2008 at 10:17 AM. Reason: Making this a generalised sticky
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  #2  
Old 05-11-2008, 06:42 PM
ga2500ev ga2500ev is offline
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Default Re: alternator as a range extender attachment?

An alternator need to be driven to produce energy. Also like any other energy conversion technology, it needs more energy coming in than it will produce.

So where is this energy coming from? I hope not from the battery pack. Since it'll take more energy than it produces, it'll run that battry pack down faster than if you didn't have it at all.

Gas or diesel? Now you're getting somewhere. A series hybrid is essentially this type of system. A diesel genset generates power that drives the electric motor or charges the batteries.

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Old 05-11-2008, 06:59 PM
momono momono is offline
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Default Re: alternator as a range extender attachment?

Hey, apparently alot of people bring up this idea about some kind of alternator or generation system to take advantage of the car's forward movement in order to extend the range. I should know, I'm one of those people lol. It would be great, but the general consensus is that the actual generation of electricity, the movement of electrons in the coils, basically creates an electromagnet that makes drag, effectively making it harder to move the generator the more power you're generating.

Here's the thread I started - http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums...ons-13043.html - These guys are really smart and have helped me think this through, but basically my thought is that if you changed the curve of your generation coils to maximize your capture of the spinning magnetic field, it might also eliminate that radial drag factor and even get it to move faster per power drain instead of the other way around. It would be like a figure-8 circuit, with one set of magnets effectively repelling the other by-proxy of your coiling. There's alot of mights there, so I've got plans and parts to build the thing and I'll be keeping people updated. But until that happens, I'd listen to the conventional wisdom of these guys.

Last edited by momono; 05-11-2008 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 05-14-2008, 11:28 PM
dfwheelman dfwheelman is offline
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Default Re: alternator as a range extender attachment?

Well, I have been considering the "micro diesel" approach that would run off of waste vege oil or biodiesel. This would power A/C, PS, and alternator to charge may be 12 v system and provide current to 144v system, not sure about dc-dc conversions though. This would greatly extend the range of the vehicle (depending on the fuel tank and engine size). there are small diesel generators that you could rob the engine from. Also diesels on mowers as well.
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:08 AM
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Default Re: alternator as a range extender attachment?

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Originally Posted by dfwheelman View Post
Well, I have been considering the "micro diesel" approach that would run off of waste vege oil or biodiesel. This would power A/C, PS, and alternator to charge may be 12 v system and provide current to 144v system, not sure about dc-dc conversions though. This would greatly extend the range of the vehicle (depending on the fuel tank and engine size). there are small diesel generators that you could rob the engine from. Also diesels on mowers as well.
A diesel lawn mower? That would be the perfect engine to harvest and turn into a generator. Good idea. The only mowers I know of in NZ are 2 and 4 stroke petrol engines unfortunately.
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Old 05-15-2008, 08:52 AM
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Default Re: alternator as a range extender attachment?

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Originally Posted by KiwiEV View Post
A diesel lawn mower? That would be the perfect engine to harvest and turn into a generator. Good idea. The only mowers I know of in NZ are 2 and 4 stroke petrol engines unfortunately.
Yes, I saw one at an auction here and I was REALLY tempted to snap it up, but didn't have a project for it. Now, I have a project and no engine

I have also seen small diesel generators that would work great.

BTW great work on the videos. I enjoyed them!

Mark
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Old 05-15-2008, 09:01 AM
dfwheelman dfwheelman is offline
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Default Re: alternator as a range extender attachment?

Here's a picture of the mower

afterthought, it might be a tad big for my application... not "micro" sized, although I have seen some that are.

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Old 05-15-2008, 09:10 AM
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Default Re: alternator as a range extender attachment?

I calculated my daily driving to be less than 50 miles so I don't think the added complexity is worth it for my first car.
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Old 05-15-2008, 10:16 AM
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Default Re: alternator as a range extender attachment?

Quote:
Hello,
I was wondering if I could just add an alternator to an ev and get a range extender. The alternator seems like a good idea, even an industrial one, now... I have no knowledge in this area whatsoever, so would anyone enlighten me?
To answer your question:

If you mean adding an alternator that's powered by the electric motor of the EV, then simply no, it will not work.

This is what you call Perpetual Motion (Generator on Motor, Wind Powered) and according to all the laws of physics it is impossible.

You can never get more energy out of a system than you put in.

A simple experiment to do yourself, goto the local hobby store buy two small 6 volt electric motors, link their shafts together then wire them together.

Now try spinning them, they will not continue to spin.


A normal gasoline car's alternator takes energy away from the spinning engine to produce electrical energy, but this is not 100% efficient.

In order to obtain Perpetual Motion (Generator on Motor, Wind Powered) you need a system that is more than 100% efficient, which is impossible.

EDIT: I think I should make a wiki article on this, seems I've written this nearly 20 times now.
EDIT: Here it is:
http://www.diyelectriccar.com/forums...0555#post40555


EDIT: I forgot to mention.

If your referring to an Alternator that is powered by a gasoline/diesel engine as a range extender, then yes, this can work, this is what is called a Series Hybrid.
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Last edited by Mastiff; 05-15-2008 at 10:37 AM.
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Old 05-15-2008, 12:36 PM
momono momono is offline
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Default Re: alternator as a range extender attachment?

I respect that such a thing doesn't exist yet, but that doesn't mean it never will. Perpetual energy or Perpetual Motion (Generator on Motor, Wind Powered) is not impossible, since by the very definition magnets themselves are perpetual energy devices (though they slowly lose charge over many years). The blockage I think is a mental one and not necessarily a physical one... most people seem to look at the magnetic drag as an inevitability of nature and throw up their hands, and make little to no attempt to thwart it (provided they even get that far in their thoughts..). My disagreement isn't so much with the practicality of this statement, that Perpetual Motion (Generator on Motor, Wind Powered) is impossible, but with its theoretical basis - because if you look around at the energies and forces that keep this little world spinning you'll see that's just not the case. It's our technology that has to catch up to the Universe, not the other way around. If we can split atoms and forge particular vortices and build the internet, then someone somewhere someday should be able to make a generator with no electromagnetic drag. The technology hasn't really changed much in the last century, it's a mystery to me why this particular hurtle has remained for so long.. But nevertheless, never say never. :P
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