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Westfalia T3 with Chevy Bolt drivetrain

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100K views 177 replies 27 participants last post by  BenNelson  
#1 · (Edited)
VW Vanagon T3 with Chevy Bolt drivetrain

Hi

I'm asking myself if DiyEcar is still the best place to put a build thread and to obtain help.
It was the case many years ago when the overvolted forklift motor was the rule, but now?

Well, my plan is to put a 200 hp 60 kWh Bolt drivetrain in a Westfalia... Exciting right?
Yes, but all the electronic and control in the Bolt fear me a bit.
Anyway, I will have the crached Bolt in few days and the West in few weeks.

Let me know if you have advice or help.
Thanks
 

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#2 ·
This sounds like an interesting project, and could work well. I don't have any advice, and with no questions or problems presented yet there's nothing to help with... but I have questions:

Will the Bolt drive unit (motor plus transaxle) will fit into the T3's structure and under the floor? The motor is concentric with the axle, but the reduction gear housing sticks up substantially.

Where is the battery going? In the stock box it is long and wide and wouldn't fit anywhere except in the interior as a huge box of cargo. Are the modules to be re-arranged to be stacked behind the axle in the engine area?

This is, I believe, an image of the bottom of a VW T3 (with the van's rear to the left in the image):
http://www.westfalia.gomez-perales.com/Images/jackpoints.jpg
 
#3 ·

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#4 ·
Yabert said:
My only question at the moment is to know if there is a better place than DiyEcar to start a build thread or if this one is still relevant.
Click to expand...
I don't know where else would be more suitable for a DIY EV conversion build thread than DIYElectricCar, and I won't see it if it goes elsewhere (which of course doesn't matter to anyone else).

The forum's future was looking pretty shaky, but seems to be stable for now and I assume that anyone writing a build thread would keep a copy of everything themselves, so they could re-post elsewhere if necessary.
 
#6 ·
Few pics from the Bolt.
By a lot of chance, no major component was destructed by the accident. Even the fluid heater in the passenger corner wasn't touch despite there is a lot of sheared steel sheet in this area.
Globally, the windshield, the dash and the passager pillar are destruct, but all the others parts are fine.

But, despite I replaced the lost MSD with a temporary solution and I cleared many DTC, the car still don't move at the moment.
By chance, I'm able to see that the battery cells are in good shape at 3.8V.

Next step is trying to find why this car don't move.
 

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#8 ·
You'll have to re-flash the controller to erase the permanent codes set by the airbag control module.

Cheapest way is to order a GM VCX Nano, around $120-130 and a subscription to AcDelco Tis. You get a 2 year subscription to one vin for $45 bucks.

Or find a shop that can come out and reflash it for you.
 
#7 ·
I love seeing these projects

Are you planning one of these

https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/hybrid-hot-rod-2-0-pria-ghia-36697.html

Types of projects where the Bolt still thinks it’s a Bolt but with a Westfalia body or are you starting from scratch just tugging out parts and bolting them in?


The guy above can do body swaps to Prii skateboards in a few months normally which if I ever do it it will be how I approach the issue.
 
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#9 · (Edited)
rmay635703 said:
Are you planning one of these

https://ecomodder.com/forum/showthread.php/hybrid-hot-rod-2-0-pria-ghia-36697.html.
Click to expand...
That's a 180-post thread, and no indication in the first or last pages whether the thing actually got built or not. It's not worth it for each of us to spend an hour to read the whole thing to find out. Do you have a link to a specific post (or page) showing the result?

rmay635703 said:
The guy above can do body swaps to Prii skateboards in a few months normally which if I ever do it it will be how I approach the issue.
Click to expand...
The Prius doesn't have a "skateboard" structure, and neither does any Tesla; it's unfortunate the Tesla people incorrectly used this term. Cutting away the roof of a Prius leaves a lot more than a skateboard and yet destroys the structure, so the "rebody" project must replace the structure.


The driver and front passenger sit over the front wheels in a T3 (and earlier VW vans); it seems unlikely that the Bolt's packaging of components would work for the T3, even if one were willing to get a front-wheel-drive van out the project.
 
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#19 ·
I know that there is a shunt resistor about 1/8 watt probably 1K ohm across the airbag activator that gets destroyed when the airbags go off.

What do the autobody people do to reset the computers? I have heard that if the airbags deploy the car gets insurance totaled.
 
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#20 ·
piotrsko said:
I have heard that if the airbags deploy the car gets insurance totaled.
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Vehicles are declared a total loss when repair costs exceed the value (after salvage recovery) of the vehicle. When airbags deploy there is usually quite a bit of damage (including the expensive airbags and their installation), so it's not surprising that those vehicles are often declared a total loss... but it's not simply a rule that airbags deployed means totalled.
 
#22 ·
Vehicles are declared a total loss when repair costs exceed the value
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Actually, by law, some places it's more aggressive than that.

For example, "2/3" is often the rule. $3000 car has $2000 of damage or more, it's done. It will be given a salvage brand and then you have to rebuild it with a pretty serious and detailed inspection afterwards.

On anything more than 5 years old, a shopping cart scraping along 3 panels of paint can write the vehicle off.

There is also "unrecoverable" brands that are common, which is usually frame damage (can never be repaired). I think there's also a moderately common brand for, no parts from this vehicle can be used to repair another one, which is when it's especially compromised.

Airbags might also result in a unrecoverable or salvage brand by default in some jurisdictions, not just be a component of damage dollars.

They often don't want to give the contact info away, but there's usually a guy who works for the government that signs off on all that, (if for example, a vehicle was branded in error, or, the insurance adjuster filed the paperwork before it was agreed to be settled [happened to me], it's the guy they'll call to undo that). If you can get a hold of him and say something like "Hey, yeah it got written off for damage, but, it's just paint, it's structurally sound", they'll, very rarely, reverse the decision to brand a car. But you usually have to have proof and they have to talk to the insurance agent or whoever inspected the car. Usually there are inadequate notes (it's not the adjustor's job to help you prove this, nor the mechanics, nor was it at the time), or that person is gone or doesn't remember or whatnot. He's not the guy looking at the car, he's the industry guy doing the clerkwork, and in my case it was a person with significant clout, almost like you'd be careful how you act around a judge, even though the job is fairly mundane.
 
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#23 ·
MattsAwesomeStuff said:
Actually, by law, some places it's more aggressive than that.

For example, "2/3" is often the rule. $3000 car has $2000 of damage or more, it's done.
Click to expand...
Perhaps, but a $3000 car which has $2000 of damage is a total loss anyway, because there is salvage value in the damaged car, and administering the repair (including a rental car in many cases), so the net cost to the insurance company would likely exceed the replacement value of the vehicle.

At the other extreme, pop an airbag on a Ferrari and see if they just write it off and toss the car in the scrap pile... not likely.

A 2/3rds value rule sounds like just an insurance guideline (rather than a law), and whatever rules some state might have about titles, an airbag deployment event seems very unlikely to cause a vehicle's control system to commit computer suicide and be unrecoverable. There will be a reset procedure, and that's what Yabert is looking for.
 
#25 · (Edited)
Weather is particularly cold this year here in november and I have to move fast to put all the powertrain/battery parts inside (move by hands).
The snow is approx one month in advance so dismantle the Bolt is a pain...

Anyway, I finally been able to drive the car after I cleared some high voltage DTC (No new airbag module needed). I also tested the charge.
So, I remove radiator, charger, junction box, DC-DC, drive and motor from the Bolt.

Next step, the 950 lbs battery
 

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#27 ·
boekel said:
were you able to pull CAN-logs? for example to re-use a complete battery?
Click to expand...
No. Sadly, control and programmation stuff isn't my strength.
My plan is really to integrate everything the complete Bolt powertrain need to be happy in his new Vanagon body.
At the moment, I identified:

Needed - the front wheel sensors, the abs module, motor module, battery module (2x), chassis control module, air bag module.
Not needed - the power steering, the airbags, crash sensors, windshield mirror, doors sensors and many lights and presence sensors.

Some others tests will let me know if I can remove or bypass more stuff.
 
#30 ·
More news.
I removed the battery from the Bolt. It's really easy with some good tools despite I'm working in the snow. :rolleyes:
Yes, I forgor to remove the MSD first...
I had to dismantle the entire battery to be able to move by hand all the part inside (no garage sadly).
In less than 4 hours all the modules and the battery box was inside. Thanks to the video 2017 Chevrolet Bolt EV Battery Disassembly from Weber auto https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ssU2mjiNi_Q
Each of the 5 modules weight around 150 lbs and the battery box around 200 lbs. Not too bad when you move it with 4 hands.
At the moment I have to say that this Chevy Bolt is well build and easy to work with.
 

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#31 ·
Finally, I rebuild the Bolt battery inside.
With all the modules and cooling plate in hand it seem I could probably rework the fifth module and move it by 90° in the middle of the pack (pic-1-2).
This rework can allow me to don't cut some part of the Westfalia Frame.
Anyway, I have to choose between cut the Westfalia frame and don't touch the battery or cut the battery cover and build new support for the fifth module. Of course this second option imply re-routing of the coolant circuit and some wires and busbars.

I still have to remove some wire harness and module inside the Bolt and I will have everything I need to run the motor inside.
 

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#57 ·
Hey Yabert,
I was wondering if you have some insight into the way the battery is cooled - I know from John Kelly's videos that there's a thermal pad between the cold plate and the battery modules, but I was wondering if the modules consisted of inter-leaved aluminium plates between each cell or group of cells. I find battery thermal management quite the challenge, so it's good to see how the market leaders are working it.
Cheers,
Chris
 
#32 ·
Is there some mechanical engineers who can help me / confirm me that a shrink fit coupling assembly will work for my situation.
The situation is I have to fix a 26mm Chevy Bolt cardan shaft to the 28mm Westy cardan shaft. Both shaft are steel (unknow type)
I plan to rework an A513 1-1/2'' x 1/4'' wall DOM tube to link both cardan shaft together by press fit and add a Tig weld at each end after (hope picture help to understand).

Based on tribology online calculator, in my situation, the interference fit itself can pass over 3000 Nm of torque. The Bolt have a torque of 266 lbs-ft at motor shaft and a gear ratio of 7:1 for 1862 lbs-ft at cardan shaft or 2527 Nm.
http://www.tribology-abc.com/calculators/e6_2.htm

So, advices?
 

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#34 ·
Yabert said:
Is there some mechanical engineers who can help me / confirm me that a shrink fit coupling assembly will work for my situation.
The situation is I have to fix a 26mm Chevy Bolt cardan shaft to the 28mm Westy cardan shaft. Both shaft are steel (unknow type)
I plan to rework an A513 1-1/2'' x 1/4'' wall DOM tube to link both cardan shaft together by press fit and add a Tig weld at each end after (hope picture help to understand).

Based on tribology online calculator, in my situation, the interference fit itself can pass over 3000 Nm of torque. The Bolt have a torque of 266 lbs-ft at motor shaft and a gear ratio of 7:1 for 1862 lbs-ft at cardan shaft or 2527 Nm.
http://www.tribology-abc.com/calculators/e6_2.htm

So, advices?
Click to expand...

That is essentially what I am doing. I bought some DOM tubing to extend the shaft from the Leaf and mate it to the T4 (Eurovan). I needed to extend by about 300mm and I bored the DOM .001 over the shaft size. I will tig weld the accessable end and bore through the DOM so I can weld it to the shaft closer to the end as well. My exact distance will be determined by the loading of the suspension. You will need to use a cutoff disc to cut the shaft as any blade will go dull quickly.
 
#35 ·
Duncan said:
Hi Yabert
Looks good to me
Click to expand...
Ok, thanks.
But do you have some formulas or calculations (more than an online calculator) to be sure out of doubt that this interference fit will be perfect for my situation?
It's not on a 10 000 km road trip with the familly that it's time to constat that my calcul wasn't right :rolleyes:

I can imagine myself stopping at the GM dealer to ask Chevy Bolt parts for my Vanagon :D, but not for modified parts.
 
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#36 ·
The only things I would add: DOM doesnt have a tight callout for straightness, so inspect your piece.

On your collar: if you drill at least two holes through coupling and weld down to the inner tube the joint becomes as strong as the inner tube. Required procedure on aircraft tube structures
 
#39 ·
Hi Yabert
I would design it to take the torque loading by friction - as in your calculator
And then add in the welding as an additional safety factor

Couple of other points
Pressing the two together is not as "safe" a process as doing a heat shrink - I would be looking at pressing them together with the outer tube as hot as you can get it

After welding you should get the welds crack tested

I like Piotrsko's method - this should ensure that you don't initiate some form of failure from the weld

If you feel paranoid how difficult would it be to take the shaft off after a good long testing period and have it crack tested again?

I would not be at all worried about the shrink fit failing after a period of time - the two welded ends would worry me more as there could be a crack slowly growing - which is why I like Piotrsko's method
 
#44 ·
Ok, it's what I had in mind. They seem to call this Rosette Welding.
But it appear that I have bad experimentation with this type of weld when they are used for torque transmission in a shaft.
On the aircraft structure this kind of weld is used in tension / compression in addition to others welds between tubes. It's not the same case on a driveshaft.

As you can see below, the first shaft on my Smart was rework using rosette type welding and it fail after few thousand kilometers.
After I reworked the shaft with a complete weld around the tubes and it's what move my Smart today after many thousand of kilometers (3e pic).

Each assembly was press fit tubes and only the weld type was different. Of course, the coupling inside or outside the tubes have played an important role too in this case.

Duncan said:
Couple of other points
Pressing the two together is not as "safe" a process as doing a heat shrink - I would be looking at pressing them together with the outer tube as hot as you can get it
Click to expand...
Thanks for the tip. I understand the fact and I plan to heat the coupling to obtain a slide fit when heated and an interference fit when shaft and the coupling are at the same temperature.
 

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#48 ·
It's a bit the mess in the room at the moment. It's mainly caused by the huge wiring harness.
I have to find a large and tall support to fix it to the wall.
I have to use it almost completely to maintain all the desired fonction of the Bolt in the West.
 

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#50 ·
Small update
The stack comprised of the motor, controller, charger, dc-dc is now in place.
I have to reconnect few wires minus the seats and the airbags and find a stable place for the airbag module.
This one could take action if it think that the car crach (module drop to the ground) or if it think that the car is in an important angle.

Also, I have dismantle the cardan shafts.
After have cut it, I will to be able to do the press fit with the other half Vanagon cardan shaft.
 

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#52 ·
Hi Yabert: you're amazing- just so that you know that if you didn't already!

Consider me "subscribed".

What are you planning to do for insurance? My understanding is that Quebec is just about as bad as Ontario for insuring converted cars- and here, if I were to re-build my E-Fire, my only option is the Facility Association- $4,100 per year, which is too much for me to consider right now even though I'd only pay it 6 months of the year.

Best of luck with the project- personally I would find it too frustrating to deal with all that software. You're Doctor Frankenstein, trying to make a brain happy in a new body!
 
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#53 ·
Moltenmetal said:
What are you planning to do for insurance? My understanding is that Quebec is just about as bad as Ontario for insuring converted cars- and here, if I were to re-build my E-Fire, my only option is the Facility Association- $4,100 per year, which is too much for me to consider right now even though I'd only pay it 6 months of the year.

Best of luck with the project- personally I would find it too frustrating to deal with all that software. You're Doctor Frankenstein, trying to make a brain happy in a new body!
Click to expand...

What was your insurance cost before the accident?
 
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