[eldis]

To the original topic - when you power on your Volvo pump without CAN, does it run even without having any fluid in the reservoir? Or does not start at all?

 

[Leafy]

To the original topic - when you power on your Volvo pump without CAN, does it run even without having any fluid in the reservoir? Or does not start at all?

Yes, but I wouldnt do that, its probably not good for it.

 

[eldis]

Yes, but I wouldnt do that, its probably not good for it.

Interesting, judging by the wiring, my VW Polo pump that I got yesterday is practically identical - three contact connector (2xCAN, +15), one power connector (+30, -31). But when I apply power to the main connector and connect +15 to 12V, nothing happens
The main difference is that I also have a three pin connector for the power steering sensor. Maybe this one indeed require CAN, or contains fluid level switch (no compatible liquids around).

My wiring:

 

[easy_e]

Interesting, judging by the wiring, my VW Polo pump that I got yesterday is practically identical - three contact connector (2xCAN, +15), one power connector (+30, -31). But when I apply power to the main connector and connect +15 to 12V, nothing happens
The main difference is that I also have a three pin connector for the power steering sensor. Maybe this one indeed require CAN, or contains fluid level switch (no compatible liquids around).

My wiring:

I found a full description of the polo pump, but unfortunately that pump will be stuck in "limp mode" (see page 13-16 in attached pdf) without the steering angle sensor and power steering sensor.

I found the function diagram on page 20 of the attached pdf was helpful for my understanding of the volvo eps.

See attached pdf.

 

[eldis]

I found the function diagram on page 20 of the attached pdf was helpful for my understanding of the volvo eps.

See attached pdf.

Thank you, this is exactly what I was looking for Quite frankly I prefer a pump that is more complicated to control, but allows you to have truly adaptive power steering - after all we invest a lot of time into our conversions, so why to settle down on always_full_power pumps.

 

[Leafy]

More of an update on this pump. I cant get the fitting to seal on the pressure side. Volvo uses a strange flare fitting that has an oring on the flare. Not really paying attention I just used a normal power steering M16x1.5 oring sealed fitting that has an oring at the tip. Well these dont work. Neither does using a copper washer with these fittings. I'm kind of at a loss of what to do besides trying to use the bit of volvo hardline I have with the correct connection and trying to put an AN flare on it.

 

[flightrail john]

Just bought a used Volvo electric pump, with PS hose set. I will be looking at adapting this to SAE fittings. I think the pump outlet could be machined if one is careful not to get chips into the pump and the orifice at the bottom of this bore is not changed (this might impact the load sensing ability of the pump, though I'm not sure of this) I have a new unflashed TRW pump that I made a pressure fitting adapter for. I would like either to get it programmed to run in a load sensing mode, or to sell it to someone who could get it to run for themself.

 

[UnknownPrimate]

*EDIT* I just realized that this is my first post. ...um, hi!

I can probably hack the CAN bus to the PS pump.

Any luck on this?

These are 100% definitely TRW pumps. I just haven't been able to figure out which model specifically yet. Most (if not all) of the EHPAS pumps are TRW, so this discussion should be relevant to all of them.

I'm running one of these pumps on my Wrangler (not EV), and am having some problems with the steering. It has hydroboost and power steering. The brakes work great, but if I turn the wheel too fast, like in a parking lot, it loses assist. The steering will stay difficult until I back off my pressure on the wheel and try again more slowly...

The volume and pressure of the pump should be more than adequate for my application, so I'm wondering if maybe the pump doesn't ramp up to full power when running failsafe mode (without CAN)?

I initially had some flow issues related to some elbows that I had in the lines, but I resolved that by removing the elbows and having new lines made. I also found that the adapter fitting that I used was too short, and leaked with pressure spikes. I replaced it with a longer fitting, and it doesn't seem to leak anymore, but still has the steering issues.

The adapter that I originally used that leaked. Earls 991955

The longer adapter that I bought that seems to work. Edelbrock/Russell 648060

I haven't seen the Volvo fitting, but a possibility if these didn't work would be to cut the section of hard line off of the Volvo hose, and use a hydraulic compression fitting. That's what my local NAPA does to make their power steering hoses.

 

[Leafy]

Thank you for that fitting. I've been using the earls ones, tried both steel and aluminum.

I can confirm that this is a TRW pump. I have the pdf of the OEM documentation somewhere about the pump where they talk about how easy it is to program and what the default pressure is and such.

 

[UnknownPrimate]

Thank you for that fitting. I've been using the earls ones, tried both steel and aluminum.

I can confirm that this is a TRW pump. I have the pdf of the OEM documentation somewhere about the pump where they talk about how easy it is to program and what the default pressure is and such.

You're welcome! I figure that even though I don't have an EV (yet), that we're all car nuts (or just plain nuts), and we can all only benefit from comparing notes

I would very much like to see this manual! I also have a ROM flasher, so if the ROM in these were compatible with my programmer, all we'd need would be an example of one that's set the way we need it, and I could flash any of the other ones to the same program.

 

[Leafy]

You're welcome! I figure that even though I don't have an EV (yet), that we're all car nuts (or just plain nuts), and we can all only benefit from comparing notes

I would very much like to see this manual! I also have a ROM flasher, so if the ROM in these were compatible with my programmer, all we'd need would be an example of one that's set the way we need it, and I could flash any of the other ones to the same program.

Dont worry I dont even have plans for an EV but this site was the best knowledge base for monkeying around with these things. My turbo is in the way of where the belt driven pump would go and the power steering makes turning the 10" wide slicks a whole bunch easier. I the TRW manual I have is almost like marketing literature so it doesnt get into nitty gritty. I bet with some snooping I can get the tech data from TRW if I can find their internal designation of the pump in that manual I have. Now to find it again.

 

[UnknownPrimate]

Figuring out how to hack these would be a huge benefit for the whole custom car community.

 

[Leafy]

Starts on page 8 of this. I think I have another TRW one but this one has a crap load of info about the pump in it. http://www.volvoclub.org.uk/tech/S40MY2005-SuspensionSteering.pdf

 

[UnknownPrimate]

Input Signals

Steering Wheel Movement Speed
Signal from the steering wheel angle sensor in the
SWM:

• Provides information about how fast the steering
wheel is turned in degrees/s.
The servo effect is adapted to the speed that the
steering wheel is turned. The faster the steering
wheel is turned the more servo power provided.

Vehicle Speed
Signal from BCM:

• Provides information about the speed of the
vehicle.

Servo power is adapted to the speed. The higher
the speed the lower the servo power.

Engine Status And Speed
Signals from ECM:

• Provides information if the engine is running or
not.

The pump motor normally only starts with the engine
running.

If the engine status signal is missing the engine
speed signal from the ECM is used.
If both signals are missing the pump motor will start
when the ignition is switched on.

Identifying EPS
A configuration ID for the EPS is stored in both the
CEM and the EPS.
These IDs are compared and must correspond for
the system to function.

So, we already know the pump starts up with only the ignition high signal.

To me this looks like to change the assist we need:
Increase assist - message for fast steering wheel movement from the steering wheel angle sensor
Decrease assist - high vehicle speed message from the BCM

While it's possible that the pump ramps up and down completely variably, it makes more sense to me that it probably uses a series of steps based on thresholds. I think this, because doing it this way would take much less computing power than mapping a completely dynamic variable control. Or it could just be wishful thinking on my part...

What do you think?

 

[flightrail john]

I have electric vehicles, but am trying to use one of these pumps on a crane that I did an engine swap on. It has fully hydrostatic steering like drywaller's set-up (see u-tube link).

I'm having problems though. The first pump I bought I think came from Azure auction and will not run in default. I think it needs to be programmed. This week I bought a 2005 s40 pump and I can't get it to run either. I get a spark when I connect main terminals. I'm assuming this is from capacitors charging. However, when I connect the ignition wire nothing seems to happen. The first time I connected 12v to big wires, the pump jogged briefly. Less than 2 seconds. Any suggestions?

I agree, these pumps would be a boon to tinkerers. I am surprised TRW is not marketing them yet for liftgates, remote hydraulics, etc. I know they are looking at developing models for big trucks.

 

[Leafy]

I have electric vehicles, but am trying to use one of these pumps on a crane that I did an engine swap on. It has fully hydrostatic steering like drywaller's set-up (see u-tube link).

I'm having problems though. The first pump I bought I think came from Azure auction and will not run in default. I think it needs to be programmed. This week I bought a 2005 s40 pump and I can't get it to run either. I get a spark when I connect main terminals. I'm assuming this is from capacitors charging. However, when I connect the ignition wire nothing seems to happen. The first time I connected 12v to big wires, the pump jogged briefly. Less than 2 seconds. Any suggestions?

I agree, these pumps would be a boon to tinkerers. I am surprised TRW is not marketing them yet for liftgates, remote hydraulics, etc. I know they are looking at developing models for big trucks.

power and ground to the big connector and just 12v to the pin closest to the big connector on the small connector is what you're doing right?

 

[flightrail john]

power and ground to the big connector and just 12v to the pin closest to the big connector on the small connector is what you're doing right?

Right. Pump looks good on outside. I'm going to try better connections than jumpers and will advise if it runs.

Thanks

 

[UnknownPrimate]

Bumping this thread with a video I just ran across

http://youtu.be/tFH1XMlEj4Y

 

[HPEVS]

All,

It's been a while since I looked at this thread, but here's what I know up to this point. Some have already posted this info, sorry if I repeat anything.

You can run the pump free standing by connecting the two main battery wires plus the small enable wire to 12 volts. The pump will run at full speed drawing only 5 amps without turning the vehicle. From there it will take what it needs to maintain motor RPM. These are a TRW pump, but each OEM may have their own CAN protocol to drive it.

The later pumps have a flange for the hose which the local Pirtek guys don't have, they suggested I buy the original line set, those are $300.00. So i picked up an earlier pump from a 2005 Volvo, this has an easier fitting to obtain, but mine came with the fitting, so it was just a matter of connecting to it.

I have purchased an ECM from a 2005 Volvo and I'm going to try putting power to it and at least collect the CAN PID's, with any luck the pump will change speed or shut down when it sees the engine not running.

This pump for us is going in to an electric boat conversion, so load on teh pump will be different than a car would have and the boat rack goes in to bypass when you hit the end of travel.

More to come when I have it.

Brian

 

[UnknownPrimate]

Thanks Brian!

The only thing I notice that may be slightly different than what you stated is that I don't think my pump is running at full power when powered without CAN. It's identical to the one in the video, but sounds more like that one does at half power or less.

The EPS is on the high speed CAN, so either 250 or 500kbps depending on the year (I don't remember what year mine is from)

I'm working on an Ardiuno Uno with a CANBUS shield (still need to order the shield). I'm going to connect it up after I finish it and try sending different speed and RPM messages to see if I can affect the pump RPM.

I also saw a reference somewhere that said the Volvo pump is connected using LIN, which goes against everything else I've read.

Mine is missing the 3 pin plug, which I want to remedy before hooking anything else to it. It appears that the plug (part# 30658215 for just the housing) was used on many other Volvos for various things from 1999 to present. One specific application is the boost sensor on T6 V60s, which they happen to have at my local Pick N Pull.