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Volvo electro hydraulic power steering

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230K views 166 replies 43 participants last post by  Jeep Man  
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#1 · (Edited)
Hi everyone. I am new to the site, just joined today but have been lurking for some time.
I am building a small scale electric car just to learn the basics. Then I will try my hand at a larger vehicle.
I am now working out the power steering and have hit a road block.
I aquired an electric over hydraulic power steering pump from a 2005 V50 Volvo.
I am hoping that someone here can help me get this pump running. I know it works as I have tested it in a working volvo.
However it is not as easy as hooking up 12VDC to get it to turn on. The host vehicle employs a host of sensors to comunicate with the pumps motor.
Does anyone have any idea as to how to bypass the sensors and still allow the motor to run? Here is a PDF file and a picture that explains much of the pumps workings. Thank you very much for any and all help,
Marco
View attachment Volvo steering pump PDF.pdf

Image
 
#4 ·
Please provide some more information about the pump.
What's on the labels?
How many pins have the CAN connector etc?
One pin should be ground ... possibly connected to chassis/casing of the pump and ground pin of the power connector you already connected.
If you remember the original cabling form the V50 the CAN_H and CAN_L lines should be interweaved (differential pair).
So the pin left should be ignition.

br,zw
 
#6 ·
Looking at the instructions

Page 15:
The pump starts if the following conditions are met:

15+ is High (Ignition on)
30+ supply is between 10.5 and 16.5 V
The car engine has started.

Per page 14:

If both signals are missing the pump motor will start when the ignition is switched on.

So looks like it'll run with out the can bus (probably just at one speed) Need to get a copy of the pin outs for the connectors and give it a try.

Thaniel
 
#7 · (Edited)

Attachments

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#8 ·
Thaniel said:
Found the attached page (from http://www.matthewsvolvosite.com/volvo-wiring-diagrams/) but yet to find the right connector

Edit: Check out this thread
http://www.volvo-forums.com/t30971-testing-electric-power-steering-pump.htm

Must be you :D Just get a guy to snap a pic of their pump with the connectors attached and label the colors of the wires. The page I attached shows what color.
Click to expand...
Thaniel, wow! you have provided more info in just a couple of replies than I have been able to find in nearly a week of searching on the web.
I will get the wire pig tails and post the colors soon.
Thank you again, Marco.
 
#9 ·
Hi Drywaller
Do you NEED power steering?

Cars even quite heavy cars used to have non-power steering, my old Lancia Beta was a heavy old tank but the only time you noticed was when parking

Mind you you did notice when you got into something light like a Ford Escort

When you were driving it was great
 
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#10 · (Edited)
OK, I got the wire colors on the smaller three pin plug. They are as follows.

Left to Right:

Grey with Red stripe

Blue with red stripe

Grey with Blue stripe

Does this help?
Thanks, marco.

Just wanted to be clear that when I say left to right one would be looking at the pump from the side with the two mounting holes or tabs on it. (notice there are only three mounting tabs on the pump.
 
#15 ·
The BLue Red (BU-RD) and Gray Red (GY-RD) are the can bus connections (see attached). You will need ot put power to the Grey Blue as previously described AND the Red wire. Then ground the Black. (The red and black wire are from the other connector on the pump).

If that doesn't work then the manuals are miss leading and it's a bad deal and beyond my knowlege of how to fix. My only other option would be to open the thing up and wire directly to the P/S pump motor. Probably not the best option.

Thaniel
 

Attachments

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#17 ·
WOOO HOOO! It worked. I tried this very same thing last night but it did not work then. What I discovered is that it takes about Two seconds for the pump to power up.
I am going to rig up some fittings so I can recirculate the fluid and give it an extended run.
I want to do that just to make sure that the pump will run continuously without the CAN lines connected.
Thanks ZWmaster and Thaniel for the help. I was about ready to spring for a different pump.
Thanks again, Marco.
 
#18 ·
Great news. Keep us posted on how it works out.
 
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#19 ·
So, I did a somewhat extended run to see if the pump would run without the CAN lines conected.
I ran it for about Eight minutes straight with not so much as a glitch.
I noticed that the pump would run up to speed then drop RPM slightly about two or three times. The drop was barley noticable. The only reason I noticed is that there is a slight tone that comes from the controller. I could hear the tone change pitch slightly.
Aside from that it runs perfect. I was also surprised at how quiet this pump is. I was however under no load. I am sure that it is louder once under load.
Anyway, thank you guys again for the help in helping me figure this thing out. When my project is done I will post pictures.
Thanks again, Marco.
 
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#21 · (Edited)
tatuie said:
Hello,
How's the V50 pump working out? I want to do this too, but I'm worried that the pump won't provide full performance without appropriate CAN commands.

Can you tell us what kind of hydraulic fittings it requires?
Are the electrical connectors available anywhere?

Thanks,
Erich
Click to expand...
Erich, the pump works great. The pump runs consistant without the CAN signal. I decided to go a different route with my project so this thing still sits on my workbench.
I did however buy a steering valve and had some hydraulic lines made up so I could see just how well this pump would work in another application. (off road rack crawler)
This thing is awesome. The cylinder that I used is only 1.5" in diameter with about an 8" stroke. I put this under the front of my Chevrolet 2500HD with the diesel engine (its heavy) and the pump/cylinder almost lifted the fron wheels off the ground. I dont know how much the fron of my truck weighs but my 2.5 ton Snap On floor lift jack struggles to lift it.
Anyway, I posted a video on youtube showing the ins and outs of this thing running.
I am open to offers on this set up as I dont really have a use for it in the near future.
I you are interested in the steering valve it is a Sauer Danfoss Open center load reactive with the 5th auxillary port.
Anyways, Id take $300 for everything.
Heres the link to youtube...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ygylYK-h0b8
 
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#22 · (Edited)
Erich, forgot to answer a couple of your questions. The fitting coming out of the pump is a metric M16x1.5 o-ring sealed fitting.
As for the plugs...I was lucky enough to get the plugs with my pump. Prior to that I search high and low and the only ones I found were attached to a host car. (aka junk yard) The only way I could get the wrecking yards that I called to sell the plugs was to buy the whole wire harness that was connected to the plugs in question.
 
T
#26 ·
Wow, at 13.2 Volts that's about 900W!

It would be well worth figuring out the CAN signaling on an intact V50 to get control over the pump motor. Then you could spool it down to the actual pressure level needed, and also cut the pump back as vehicle speed increases the way the V50 almost certainly does.

As it is, full on at 69 Amps seems like a huge draw, and at that power level, one has to wonder how long this unit would last. Does anyone know how this compares to a Toyota MR2 PS pump?

Great information Marco, thanks. Anything to add that you have observed about th way this thing uses energy, like does it always draw that much current, does it get hot or complain?

Thanks for the effort!

TomA
 
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#28 ·
Sorry guys, I should have stated this. Yes, the 69 amps is at full load...when the cylinder is maxed in one direction or the other.
At startup the pump draws less than 3 amps. The pump does not start full speed. It ramps up to what I think is max rpm then slows some.
It is very difficult to get an amp reading when turning the valve as the reading bounces around a bit.
If you guys need an exact reading I can try again to see if I can be more accurate.
 
#29 ·
These posts were very encouraging, so I got one of these pumps from a wrecker. It took sometime to find a shop with the right metric fittings for my miata PS rack, but tonight I was finally ready to try it. The GB pin and the mains were hooked up, but nothing. Then about 20 seconds later smoke started coming out from under the plastic cover :( Now the unit draws 14amps continuously. Now that the smoke has been let out I guess that is it for that unit..........
 
#30 ·
Finally spent a bit of time taking apart the volvo pump and discovered that the wrecker sold me a pump that was full of water. The motor had rusted to the point that it would not turn at all. That is why the electronics heated up and the smoke was released. I wonder if I can convince the wrecker to send me a replacement unit?
 
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#31 ·
Drywaller: I am attempting to follow in your footsteps. We have a little crane with a 4cyl diesel engine which I replaced. The new engine does not have provision for the ps pump. The crane has a fully hydrostatic steering system which sounds very similar to the setup you used to lift your truck off the ground. It has a 3" cylinder using 8" of stroke lock-to-lock, so more capacity. There are some TRW electric pumps available new on e-bay. They are rated up to 3gpm and 1000w. I think one of these would have adequate capacity for our crane, but I have been hesitant to buy one because of the CAN control issue. Your success has encouraged me. Is the Volvo pump made by TRW? What kind of cycle time did you have with your 1.5" cylinder? thanks
 
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#32 ·
Sorry for the delayed response. I never timed the cycle time with my setup. With the 1.5" cylinder it was fairly quick from lock to lock.
I am not sure who makes the pump. The only markings that I can remember were the ford motor company moniker. (Fomoco)
I helped a guy with his side by side. He needed a hydro steering setup to accommodate a physical limitation. He contacted me via YouTube. His name is Dave balsasera.
He a great guy. He has the technical knowledge when it comes to designing systems.
As far as the can systems. From what I understand most if not all the can pumps will run with a direct 12volts. The trick is finding the switching or trigger wire. Just remember that there may be a delay when energizing this wire.
If you can't find Dave on my YouTube page let me know and I'll see if I can track him down.
 
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#35 ·
It is my understanding that the hydrostatic steering valves like danfoss or char-lynn bypass back to the pump or reservoir when there is no demand. I'm receiving a new TRW pump today and will be following in Drywaller's footsteps. I'll post my progress and results in this thread as they happen--if that's OK. I think too that the recirculating ball steering gears also bypass when there is no demand as there always seems to be flow through the pump. Not sure about power-assisted rack & pinion systems.
 
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#36 ·
John. When ordering a steering valve be sure to know the difference between reactive and non reactive.
Basicly the non reactive will not respond to bumps in the road and will not return to center unless you manually turn the valve. Reactive is more like an automobile system. When exiting a turn the steering wheel will return to center or very close to it.
Please note that the valve I used in the video had a fifth port. It is referred to as power beyond port. When there is no input to the valve the fluid free flows through the power beyond port back to the resivoir.
 
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