Looking forward to the hybrid hotrod.

 

The vintage Plymouth forum is calling it the Electro-Mod. First on their site.

 

During the holidays, I was able to clear my shop of left over repair jobs and friends using my lift. However, I used said friends to help push the Plymouth onto the lift to begin the body off exercise. I am leaning toward a body swap, as initial dimensions compare favorably. So either a swap or a part transfer will require the body to be off the car in order to totally understand where I am headed.

I couldn't help the imbedded hot rod bias to look ahead. The wheel base of the Lexus is only 1.2" longer. With both wheels mocked up on the Plymouth axle centerlines, appearance could actually improve by that amount at the rear wheel well.

 

Dimensional data comparison:

	1950	2007
	Plymouth	Lexus	Diff
Curb Weight	3050	4134	+ 1084	lb
Overall Length	192.63	190	- 2.63	in
Overall Width	71.1	71.7	+. 6	in
Height	64.2	56.1	- 8.1	in
Wheelbase	111	112.2	+ 1.2	in
Track, Rear	55.4	60.6	+ 5.2	in
Track, Front	55.4	60.4	+ 5.0	in
HP	97	340	+ 243	HP
Torque	175	362	+ 187	ft-lb
Acceleraion 0-60	18	5.2	- 12.8	sec
Top MPH	83	131	+ 48	mph
Engine/Trans weight	570	584	+ 14	llb

 

Are you going to do a chassis/body swap? I've done this once before, put a 1967 VW Squareback body on a 1990 Miata with all of the body panels cut off.

It was a very quick way to get a rusted out vintage car running again with all the comforts of a modern car (AC, heater, disc brakes, rack and pinion steering, etc.)

The big thing you gotta look at, of course, is the wheelbase. One inch off is not enough to necessitate shortening the Lexus. I had to do this with the Miata, except stretch it and not shorten it, but it is really easy.

The bigger thing though, that no one thinks of, is the width. That's where many people run into problems, as older cars are not as wide as newer cars. Looks like the Lexus is five inches wider than the Plymouth, but that's just the wheels. In my experience, the bigger problem was fitting the Miata's firewall dashboard between the VW's kickpanels and A pillars. I had to trim off more and more and more until I was nearly hacking into the clutch petal. I even accidentally set the wiring harness on fire. Here's the video. I originally wanted to use a VW Beetle body for this project but had to switch to the Squareback because it was wider in the interior, but still wasn't wide enough. And that was with a Miata donor chassis!

Here's my recommendation: only swap the Lexus's front and rear subframes onto the Plymouth's frame and then put the body back on. Yes this will be more work, you'll not get the Lexus's firewall, dashboard, floorpans, etc. But having done a project like this already, this is what I would do if I would do it again. I ended up hating driving my VW/Miata "Frankenwagon" as I called it mainly because of the Miata interior and dashboard. Just not what I wanted at all, I wanted a 60s car with a modern troublefree engine. About two years ago I sold it and now I have a 1962 Mercury Comet and I'm doing it righ this time, with an electric motor.

Of course what you want may be different than what I want. Just make sure you measure the Plymouth's interior space between the A-pillars and dashboard is wide enough to fit the the lexus's firewall and dashboard, if that's what you choose to do.

One issue with my advice may be addapting the Lexus's wiring harness to the Plymouth such that it's happy enough to stay out of limp mode. In the very least you'll need to make sure the ABS sensors in the rear wheels are connected. You'll have to mount the Lexus brake's master cylinder to the plymouth's firewall, do some custom fab work to connect the Plymouth's steering column to the rack and pinion, don't forget the oxygen sensors and catalytic converters, and more work I'm sure. Then of course there's the hybrid battery.

You're choice.

You may want to check out the "Corvairious" project: a dude I follow on Instagram is graphting the front subframe of a Prius into the REAR of a 1960s Chevy Corvair. And it is running and driving and doing awesome! https://www.instagram.com/corvairius/

Maybe that is the way to go.

 

Thanks Manny - your advice is well heeded, as all those questions came to mind before diving in. Unlike other swaps I have seen, I studied the donor cars available and the options they offered for changing course if needed. Rear wheel drive donors were limited. I have done preliminary measuring that tells me the track will not be the biggest issue if I choose the swap option. It will be the dash/steering location as you also point out. I will know better as I strip down the Lexus.

With this swap, I have two "bail-out" positions. One is to do as you suggest and just move components onto the Plymouth frame. the other is to go the electric motor only route and eliminate the entire ICE segment. My goal is to have a comfortable and dependable ride. The brief drive I had with the original Plymouth did not impress me to keep any of it original, regardless of the nostalgic trip down memory lane. Okay, the dash and steering wheel would be a nice detail to keep, and the EV display would actually fit in the radio opening which is huge!

Frame came out yesterday. Next is to get it on a rolling cart, two of which I have in storage from previous builds.

 

The Plymouth is up on two carts now and very stable. Actually I used two carts from previous projects, one long one, catching the gas tank in the rear to the A-pillar support at the front, along with two supports in between. The square front cart I had used previously on a truck cab, catches the firewall supports and the radiator support.

With the car off the chassis, I was able to more accurately measure clearance between fenders. I am happy that at the rear I am over 1" wider that the Lexus track OD. Up front, it is marginal, but doable. The track OD will be about 1" over width. This could possibly be remedied with slimmer tires up front. On the other hand, the fender opening provides a full diameter opening compared to the rear, plus the Lexus tires are smaller in diameter, so there will be clearance, but as a rule, I do not like tires that protrude beyond the fender well.

Next up - peeling the body off the Lexus! This will take awhile.

 

"Hot rods" were all about power/weight ratio, not HP. That's why many ran fenderless and had sparse interiors. Chop & channel was all about weight and frontal area.

You thought these were fashion statements when they were sound backyard engineering.

You're doing it wrong. You want a hotrod, you ditch the ICE and all its accompanying heavy shit and you live with the electric only hybrid range.

But for a parade queen golf cart speed is all you need and quick acceleration into onlookers is frowned upon.

/you expected snark, I'm giving it now 😛

 

"Hot rods" were all about power/weight ratio, not HP. That's why many ran fenderless and had sparse interiors. Chop & channel was all about weight and frontal area.

You thought these were fashion statements when they were sound backyard engineering.

You're doing it wrong. You want a hotrod, you ditch the ICE and all its accompanying heavy shit and you live with the electric only hybrid range.

But for a parade queen golf cart speed is all you need and quick acceleration into onlookers is frowned upon.

/you expected snark, I'm giving it now 😛

What's this "now" Happy Jack, you always seem to share plenty of snark at the minimum 😁 https://www.dictionary.com/browse/snarky

I can't see where the OP said he was building a Hotrod in the first place, he wants to electrify a classic bodied vehicle, he doesn't want to strip it down to the bare bones to make "jalopy" with a motor that is really all show without much go ...... he wants a performance EV in a classic shell .... well, that's the way I read it ..... I could be wrong of course, the wife points that out to me all the time .....

T1 Terry

 

Post#1: "my hot rod bias for 340 HP is pulling me toward the hybrid mix"

 

I was watching the series of "No Prep Kings Elite Invitational" last night, and everyone of them that had a car that was going well and winning said at the end of the run "We have a Hot Rod here" and they certainly aren't show and no go cars 😁

T1 Terry

 

Remy! I so missed your snarkiness! I thought I had lost my touch to get a rise out of you. Kind of like fly fishing, when I should have been using power bait all along!

 

Having now removed the front body panels from the Lexus, I was able to more accurately measure the distance between tires for track OD in the front. As it turns out, it exactly matches the Plymouth fender OD at 69". Again, the wheelbases are virtually the same. It appears I will not have to resort to the kind of cutting, chopping and extending done on so many swaps I have seen.

Further measuring shows the dash and firewall of the Lexus to be almost the same as the Plymouth in width. Weirdly coincidental, I know. Also the distance from the front of the radiator to the steering wheel centers are very close. So the Plymouth dash could conceivably fit without filler panels. Hoping anyway.

So far, it appears there is substantially more frame on this car than most uni-body examples. Perhaps because of the electric motors in the center and battery pack in the rear.

My next task is to disable the air bags as I start to peel away the rear and side body panels on the Lexus.

 

Most of the outerbody panels have been removed, along with door and roof frames. I was pleased to find a structural steel shape inside the door frames attaching to a continuous beam along the sill. I disabled the air bags by simply unplugging the air bag control module located under the console. After that, I removed the headliner and found that the bulk of the airbags were hidden up by the roof frame. Another couple were in the rear and front quarters of the door openings. So all except steering wheel and dash air bags were removed before chopping began.

Next up - chopping the floor pan and firewall out of the Plymouth before lowering it for a trim fit.

After all that, the Lexus is still moving under electric power.

 

Sounds like you've found the perfect combo for a chassis swap! If I ever see a rusted out 1950 Plymouth coupe for sale I may have to snatch it up, now that I know how good of a candidate it is for a chassis swap project. And its cool as hell.

P.S. I love your Volvo too.

 

Of course, after I say that it is the perfect pairing, I start to discover "challenges. I wanted a benchmark on the car to start carving the Plymouth firewall to fit, so I put the fenders on which define the front door opening. At first they appeared to fit quite good. Then I took the rear wheel center line and measured forward to find that the fenders need to move back another 3". From looking at the front wheels, I thought I only needed 1". That's still okay, except I will have to remove the condenser coil and piping on the Lexus. AC is overrated, right? (No it's not. I want all the luxuries!!) I think I have the fender well to do that, as the fenders as shown are at the stock width, for hood fit. I may have to get creative for fuse access and air filter changes.

I built a gantry crane this week to levitate the Plymouth over the Lexus, which is still moving under electric power. I am welding braces on the door openings to hold them in place while lifting, but the firewall and floors are soon going away. If the front interference is all I run into, I will be fortunate. Many of the swaps I have seen end up being hack and patch jobs. I want to avoid that!

 

In keeping with the parameters of qualifying as a "hot rod" according to Remy, I have removed over 20 lbs of rust and dirt from various cavities within the Plymouth. Also a glass sunroof from the Lexus and lots of motors that will no longer be used.

 

Love the gantry crane, our work cover authority over here would have both a heart attack and a few litters of kittens if they were to see that

The photo with the front panels sitting on the Lexus chassis look like an absolute sleeper once a bonnet covers the late tech powerplant ...... and not the run of the mill V8 Chev or Ford that are so commonly seen in conversions

T1 Terry

 

Good to see you will have plenty of colour coded wiring available as well. I wonder when I'll be able to convince the wife that we need to build a shed on the concrete slab that is all that is left of a lovely big workshop ...... Then I can start on my projects 😁

T1 Terry

 

Will you build it as a flip front with the guards, bonnet, grille etc all welded into one section? That way you can get to all the bits hidden under the guards when the front is closed .....

T1 Terry

 

That's a good thought Terry - flip up front. The fenders/guards are forward from where they belong to put the wheelbase on center. The fenders were simply put onto the car to line up the body for preliminary cuts. See 2x4 timber marking where front edge of door needs to be.

Same at the rear. So a great deal of alignment issues are put in play. One thing discovered up front is that I need to reconfigure the AC system to allow more backward position to the fenders. I will have the AC system pumped down next week in order to remove the interfering pieces. I may have to go with a custom condenser coil in the future.

Aw, the gantry. I had a fellow on another forum tell me that I was scaring him and would I draw up my plan for him to look at, as he was a retired architect. Turns out I was pretty close! I doubled up the former floor joists (shop was a two story chicken coop) and put posts under each corner. He even stamped his revisions! Funny, the compliance officer would never have reviewed the various trees we used in the backyard to pull engines, etc.

 

I found this example of a flip up nose kit on an electric Bug Eye Sprite. Get's me thinking!

Front Flip Nose kit

Product Description Videos Fitment Click here for helpful article on flip nose installations! New and updated design! There are a lot of options available for something similar to this on the market, but they're not quite the same as the ones that we offer. We have had these kits specially made...

bugeyeguyparts.com

 

Well, the craft has landed, but some friends visited today and said I could get it another bit lower. So trimming is not done yet, but it is so close that success can be acknowledged. Yes, a 1950 Plymouth Business Coupe body, will swap onto a Lexus GS450H without* outside altering of the exterior body shell. It is a good match.

The *caveat is that the lower Lexus body rocker panel cover, which is plastic, really puts a nice touch on it with the chrome trim. So I may cut the Plymouth fenders to fit around it. Basically the lower door edge will be the fender trim edge.

Not much electrical going on, other than the fact that the Lexus finally died on me, so I need a service garage with Toyota scanning capability. Found one locally, so we'll see what they think of my "Toyota".

 

Have anchored the body in place. A-Pillar made with booger welds so I could remove them in case things didn't end up true after shimming and anchoring other points. However, it settled in nicely, so I will neaten those up even though they are quite strong. Bolt goes through substantial framing, so it can be lifted in the future and then put back accurately.

After anchoring the A-Pillar, I was able to place the front fenders more accurately and found that I do not have to remove the AC piping just yet. They have to pinch together in the front 1" on each side, but I think I can do it without any more butchering. The fenders are more elevated than expected, so any further lowering will have to come through the suspension. I want another 2" drop in front, maybe 1" in back. Can't tell yet until I can view it from more distance outside the shop.

But it is a good match! Lift straps have been removed until I get back to the interior. Looking to use the Lexus rear seats, making a 3 seater into a 5 seater!

Then there's the ICE restart! I cancelled my service call realizing I needed to get the body on for weather purposes. Once I get the hood in place, I will get it back on schedule.

 

Looking good so far. I'm guessing you will add panel metal to fill in the gaps and then spot weld it together, then remove the bolt attachments.
The tyre in the guard clearance doesn't look too bad as it is, not sure I'd lower it, makes it into a real sleeper, looks like it belongs in the group you wait for over lunch, but ends up leading the pack ..... a great feeling if you start out as the last car to leave 😁

Did that with a 6 cyl Alvis, blue printed the engine, massive head and port work as well as piston shape to get the air flow and compression up to where it would perform.
Hide a high flow fuel pump in the bellows tank that was the original fuel transfer method, inline water pumps in the top and bottom radiator hoses (they were originally thermosyphon) started out last at the bottom of a long hill and passed the lot of them ..... we weren't very popular with the purists, but we got lot of back slaps and hand shakes from everyone else .....

These days, an electric motor and inverter in the gutted-out block, no idea where the battery pack would go is the only problem

T1 Terry

 

I am going to declare the body swap effort a success. Last week I was able to get the hood operating on the original hinges, narrowly missing the inverter and 2/0 cables in the RH corner of the engine bay. Lots of trimming on the Lexus inner windshield wiper trough to get clearance.

It is almost weather proof enough to get it into the Toyota mechanic to see what needs to be done to get it running again. I ran out of battery pack power long ago, so it is now not able to be moved under its own power.