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Discussion starter · #23 ·
The images have been restored. Sorry for the problem, I'm not sure what happened to the hosting site, but it's gone!

I've uploaded the original images as attachments, so they are no longer dependent on an outside host.

I still have circuit boards and can order more parts if anyone is interested in a step-start controller.

Also, I would love to hear feedback, positive or negative, from anyone who bought a controller from me and has been using it for a while. I am always interested in improving the design. My original prototype is still working in my Pontiac Sunfire (over 6500 miles under electric power and still running:).)

Thanks,

Joe
 
Hello everyone, so please bear with me as I'm trying to figure out what a precharge circuit looks like physically. I have been reading around and am seeing what I feel are a couple different things.

One suggests drawing the 12v needed for precharge from the 12v battery, but I believe I saw someone advise against this on a page about a Kelly that got fried.

The other, which I'm seeing here, according to the schematics provided, involves rerouting power from the main battery array around the contactor.

The main questions I have are which is preferable, and if indeed you are drawing off of the main array, surely you cant be using 2/0 wire for the precharge route, so why doesn't the high gauge wire go up in flames from the high voltage instantly? (In my auto class my prof made a point of showing why we need fuses by running 12v through a piece of wire and letting us watch it catch on fire.)

And now the question that's going to show my utter lack of knowledge on the subject of contactors: are the closed manually with a pull string or something or does the inflow of current close the conactor automatically?

Thanks all!
 
A precharge can be as simple as a resistor across the contactor. Or it can be switched, by a simple switch or a timed or measuring circuit.

Mine is a resistor hooked to the contactor and 20 GA running to a switch on the dash. High voltage doesn't burn wire, high current does. High current is not possible when running through a large resistor, which is the whole point of the precharge.

The contactor is closed by a low voltage coil feed (usually 12V, maybe 24) tied to something like a key switch. It takes the low voltage and uses it to close high voltage contacts.
 
Thanks for that reply! It helped clear up a lot of the questions I had of what a precharge actually looks like. I'm hoping to get to the electrical work on my car pretty soon so I'm sure there will be plenty more to follow.

Collins
 
Hi Everyone ! i am busy trying to configure a motor, motor controller, throtle and conactor config....... the problem im getting is that the microcontrolerr doesnt like getting from zero to 24v directly... i.e. when i turn on the switch (24v) the controller goes on but is not happy( throtle doesnt work.) but if i gradually increase from zero to 24v around 14 v the controleer comes on! and when i set it to 24v it then works correclty.

the motor im using is http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_motors_me0909.php

throtle
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_throttles_ezgo_potbox.php

controller
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_controllers_pgdrives_4825.php

contactor
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_contactors_albright_24.php

and a 10k 5% 5W pre-charge resistor....

ive conected everything as the image above ( first image)
does anyone know of this problem?
is this problem the same as the one that the above solution was given for?
 
I see what you are saying! i just went with the data sheet specs tho! what i did to make it work is i put a cap in parallel so th voltage to the controller is inputed gradually.... 25v 1mF .. and it to worked (slighlty since the motor would turn and stop , i believe cause the voltage from the batteries drop a bit and theat causes the cap discharge slighlty and hence not operate corectly..) i bypassed that by puting a resistor that stops it at 16V .. and then a switch to bypass the resistor..... the comfortable switching (on) point of the controler is at 16v if it passes to quickly from that point.. i.e. no cap.or limiting resistor and just str8 24v then the controller gives ERROR 12 (12 flashes) something to do with the footswitch... i am really finding hard to understand this manual of the controller...

oh well i made it work now(kinda) .. but i am going to try what you said! yes it is a 10Kohm resistor i will try the one you recommend and send back some feedback! thanks for the reply!!
 
For your set-up I would expect a One thousand ohm at five watts (1.0 K Ohm 5 W.) resistor not a ten thousand ohm and it needs to supply a limited current to the power input connection on the motor controller for 10 seconds or so before the main power Relay provides full power to that controller connection so that the input filtering capacitors have a "Pre-Charge" (similar to "Inrush" limiting In other applications.) before a large surge charges the capacitors like a bolt of lightning...
 
Perhaps two 12 volt automotive light bulbs in series for 24 volts similar to side marker light bulbs (Less than one amp) and they would glow brightly as you apply the power thru them, and when they appear to have dimmed out bypass them for full operating power. That gives a visual indicator of the Pre-Charge taking place. Around here the truck stops sell replacement side marker assemblies with two lamps for reliability. rewire them into series configuration and buy the yellow or amber colored unit and put it where you can see it but not in your line of sight when driving.
 
Here is how I did it. I have a Step-Start device that turns on the precharge relay when the start signal is received (the ignition key is turned to the START position). After a time delay the contactor is turned on.
{see StepStart}
@rfengineers. Is it right to connect pre-charge relay to "start position"? According to this design when driver press throttle pedal with maximum capacity instantly inrush current would appear and it may damage the load. Should pre-charge relay work for once only starting(1)? Or should it work depend to throttle pedal everytime(2) against to inrush current. If case (2) is true pre-charge relay shouldn't wire to "start position". There is a high voltage circuit in the link below. In this circuit pre-charge relay works depends to "run position". Please would you enlighten me about pre-charge relay function? Best regards...

http://www.advanced-ev.com/Circuits/MainHighVoltage.jpg
 
@rfengineers. Is it right to connect pre-charge relay to "start position"? According to this design when driver press throttle pedal with maximum capacity instantly inrush current would appear and it may damage the load. Should pre-charge relay work for once only starting(1)? Or should it work depend to throttle pedal everytime(2) against to inrush current. If case (2) is true pre-charge relay shouldn't wire to "start position". There is a high voltage circuit in the link below. In this circuit pre-charge relay works depends to "run position". Please would you enlighten me about pre-charge relay function? Best regards...

http://www.advanced-ev.com/Circuits/MainHighVoltage.jpg
The pre-charge circuit should just operate when the system is first turned on, not every time the throttle is depressed. The motor controller stays on during periods when the throttle is not depressed during the drive cycle and therefore stays charged. It is only when the key is turned off that the motor controller will bleed down the capacitor voltage and then need to be re-pre-charged when restarted with the keyswitch.

The pre-charge function is to limit inrush on initial energizing of the motor controller. The controller itself will limit current in the normal operation of controlling the motor including rapid depression of the throttle pedal.

Number (1) is correct method.

Here is a good paper on it: http://liionbms.com/php/precharge.php
 
@major thanks for your response. Link is very helpful. But I have a question about after switch turned off.

It is only when the key is turned off that the motor controller will bleed down the capacitor voltage and then need to be re-pre-charged when restarted with the keyswitch.
Does controller's fully capacitors discharge over itself after turned off? I thought Big load accumulate in capacitors after switch off. May it damage controller's circuit when it discharges?

Best regards...
 
Does controller's fully capacitors discharge over itself after turned off? I thought Big load accumulate in capacitors after switch off. May it damage controller's circuit when it discharges?
There is no surge when a capacitor is disconnected however it may remain charged for a long period, perhaps even after the device has been disconnected. So, such devices as controllers which have large capacitors are designed with bleed down resistors to discharge those internal capacitors in a reasonable period, usually a minute or so. A few watts of power is sacrificed during operation for safety's sake.

Note: When working with such devices it is prudent to check the terminal voltage before applying tools. Most equipment is properly designed with bleed down but there is no law for it in the DIY parts market.
 
Okay so this may sound stupid but that's how I feel sometimes around all you guys :p but hey I am trying...would use of the new PulsaR (when it is finally ready for primetime) negate much of this since it is supposed to come with recharge and contractors built in as well as the automated switching of for input for charging and a DC-DC also? Not saying I would go with that as I feel when you put all your eggs in one basket, it can take a lot longer to get a full basket back instead of just picking up a couple eggs at the local market.
 
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