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Precharge, what is it, why do I need it, how do I do it.

138286 Views 59 Replies 29 Participants Last post by  Rayco
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The PWM motor controllers common in EVs have a sizable bank of capacitors on their input. When you apply a Voltage across a capacitor it initially appears to be a short-circuit, that is, the Voltage across the capacitor is zero. If there is very little resistance in the circuit, e.g. a closing contactor with no precharge, then the current will be very high. Nearly all of the traction pack voltage will be across the closing contacts. The large Voltage difference and sudden high current (known as an inrush current) can cause damage to, and in extreme cases, welding of the relay contacts. Also of concern to some is the stress on the controllers electrical components caused by the inrush current.
{see Contactor with no precharge.}

This can all be prevented by the use of a precharge resistor across the contacts of the main power relay. The precharge resistor allows the capacitors in the controller to slowly charge BEFORE the contactor closes. This means that there is less voltage across the closing contacts and little or no inrush current.
{see Contactor with precharge}


The problem with having a precharge resistor across the contactor is, there is high Voltage on the controller terminals even when the car is turned off. This is because the capacitors remain charged all of the time.
I've heard it argued that keeping the caps charged all of the time keeps them 'fully formed' and thus, extends their life. While this is technically true, it is not really an issue with modern capacitors. Unless you plan on putting your controller in storage for years, the capacitors will likely outlast their associated active components (transistors and diodes) whether you keep them fully formed or not.

Many DIY'ers add some sort of power switch, circuit breaker or disconnect to remove the high Voltage from the controller when the car is parked.
{see WithPowerSwitch}

This solves the 'high Voltage on the controller' problem BUT introduces a new wrinkle. You must now turn things on in the correct order or you will defeat the purpose of the precharge resistor.
For example, if you first turn on the contactor and then close the power switch there will be no precharge. You will have reintroduced the high Voltage/large inrush current problem.
In this case, you must first close the power switch, wait an appropriate precharge delay period, then close the contactor.


If a precharge switch is added in series with the precharge resistor it can be used to turn the high Voltage on without switching a large current flow, as is done with the contactor or power switch.
{see WithPrechargeSwitch}

In this configuration the power switch becomes an emergency disconnect that is normally left on. The precharge switch is turned on first and then, after a delay, the contactor closes.

This is different than the previous design because now the "on switch" (the precharge switch) can be a relatively small relay and the turn-on sequence can be easily automated to avoid closing the contactor before precharge.


Here is how I did it. I have a Step-Start device that turns on the precharge relay when the start signal is received (the ignition key is turned to the START position). After a time delay the contactor is turned on.
{see StepStart}


There are additional safety and convenience features of the Step-Start Device, but the basic function is to make sure that the precharge relay is always turned on BEFORE the contactor and that at least some minimum amount of time passes between the two events.

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Sorry Guys, I was busy elsewhere and did not notice the graphics were gone.

I will fix it ASAP.

Joe
The images have been restored. Sorry for the problem, I'm not sure what happened to the hosting site, but it's gone!

I've uploaded the original images as attachments, so they are no longer dependent on an outside host.

I still have circuit boards and can order more parts if anyone is interested in a step-start controller.

Also, I would love to hear feedback, positive or negative, from anyone who bought a controller from me and has been using it for a while. I am always interested in improving the design. My original prototype is still working in my Pontiac Sunfire (over 6500 miles under electric power and still running:).)

Thanks,

Joe
Thanks Joe!
Hello everyone, so please bear with me as I'm trying to figure out what a precharge circuit looks like physically. I have been reading around and am seeing what I feel are a couple different things.

One suggests drawing the 12v needed for precharge from the 12v battery, but I believe I saw someone advise against this on a page about a Kelly that got fried.

The other, which I'm seeing here, according to the schematics provided, involves rerouting power from the main battery array around the contactor.

The main questions I have are which is preferable, and if indeed you are drawing off of the main array, surely you cant be using 2/0 wire for the precharge route, so why doesn't the high gauge wire go up in flames from the high voltage instantly? (In my auto class my prof made a point of showing why we need fuses by running 12v through a piece of wire and letting us watch it catch on fire.)

And now the question that's going to show my utter lack of knowledge on the subject of contactors: are the closed manually with a pull string or something or does the inflow of current close the conactor automatically?

Thanks all!
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A precharge can be as simple as a resistor across the contactor. Or it can be switched, by a simple switch or a timed or measuring circuit.

Mine is a resistor hooked to the contactor and 20 GA running to a switch on the dash. High voltage doesn't burn wire, high current does. High current is not possible when running through a large resistor, which is the whole point of the precharge.

The contactor is closed by a low voltage coil feed (usually 12V, maybe 24) tied to something like a key switch. It takes the low voltage and uses it to close high voltage contacts.
Thanks for that reply! It helped clear up a lot of the questions I had of what a precharge actually looks like. I'm hoping to get to the electrical work on my car pretty soon so I'm sure there will be plenty more to follow.

Collins
Be sure to check your controller for the proper resistor size. For mine it's something like 750 ohm and 20 watts. I think my resistor is about 2" x .5" x .5"
Hi Everyone ! i am busy trying to configure a motor, motor controller, throtle and conactor config....... the problem im getting is that the microcontrolerr doesnt like getting from zero to 24v directly... i.e. when i turn on the switch (24v) the controller goes on but is not happy( throtle doesnt work.) but if i gradually increase from zero to 24v around 14 v the controleer comes on! and when i set it to 24v it then works correclty.

the motor im using is http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_motors_me0909.php

throtle
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_throttles_ezgo_potbox.php

controller
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_controllers_pgdrives_4825.php

contactor
http://www.electricmotorsport.com/store/ems_ev_parts_contactors_albright_24.php

and a 10k 5% 5W pre-charge resistor....

ive conected everything as the image above ( first image)
does anyone know of this problem?
is this problem the same as the one that the above solution was given for?
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10K ohm, assuming that's what you meant, is a huge resistor. 24V / 10,000 = eternity. My Curtis specs a very conservative resistor, at 750 ohm. That is too high for a quick precharge, and with lower voltage you would need less resistance.
I see what you are saying! i just went with the data sheet specs tho! what i did to make it work is i put a cap in parallel so th voltage to the controller is inputed gradually.... 25v 1mF .. and it to worked (slighlty since the motor would turn and stop , i believe cause the voltage from the batteries drop a bit and theat causes the cap discharge slighlty and hence not operate corectly..) i bypassed that by puting a resistor that stops it at 16V .. and then a switch to bypass the resistor..... the comfortable switching (on) point of the controler is at 16v if it passes to quickly from that point.. i.e. no cap.or limiting resistor and just str8 24v then the controller gives ERROR 12 (12 flashes) something to do with the footswitch... i am really finding hard to understand this manual of the controller...

oh well i made it work now(kinda) .. but i am going to try what you said! yes it is a 10Kohm resistor i will try the one you recommend and send back some feedback! thanks for the reply!!
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For your set-up I would expect a One thousand ohm at five watts (1.0 K Ohm 5 W.) resistor not a ten thousand ohm and it needs to supply a limited current to the power input connection on the motor controller for 10 seconds or so before the main power Relay provides full power to that controller connection so that the input filtering capacitors have a "Pre-Charge" (similar to "Inrush" limiting In other applications.) before a large surge charges the capacitors like a bolt of lightning...
Even a 1K ohm resistor will make your precharge incredibly slow. Do you happen to know the size of the cap bank in the controller? I would expect you need something on the order of 100 ohm 5W
Perhaps two 12 volt automotive light bulbs in series for 24 volts similar to side marker light bulbs (Less than one amp) and they would glow brightly as you apply the power thru them, and when they appear to have dimmed out bypass them for full operating power. That gives a visual indicator of the Pre-Charge taking place. Around here the truck stops sell replacement side marker assemblies with two lamps for reliability. rewire them into series configuration and buy the yellow or amber colored unit and put it where you can see it but not in your line of sight when driving.
Here is how I did it. I have a Step-Start device that turns on the precharge relay when the start signal is received (the ignition key is turned to the START position). After a time delay the contactor is turned on.
{see StepStart}
@rfengineers. Is it right to connect pre-charge relay to "start position"? According to this design when driver press throttle pedal with maximum capacity instantly inrush current would appear and it may damage the load. Should pre-charge relay work for once only starting(1)? Or should it work depend to throttle pedal everytime(2) against to inrush current. If case (2) is true pre-charge relay shouldn't wire to "start position". There is a high voltage circuit in the link below. In this circuit pre-charge relay works depends to "run position". Please would you enlighten me about pre-charge relay function? Best regards...

http://www.advanced-ev.com/Circuits/MainHighVoltage.jpg
@rfengineers. Is it right to connect pre-charge relay to "start position"? According to this design when driver press throttle pedal with maximum capacity instantly inrush current would appear and it may damage the load. Should pre-charge relay work for once only starting(1)? Or should it work depend to throttle pedal everytime(2) against to inrush current. If case (2) is true pre-charge relay shouldn't wire to "start position". There is a high voltage circuit in the link below. In this circuit pre-charge relay works depends to "run position". Please would you enlighten me about pre-charge relay function? Best regards...

http://www.advanced-ev.com/Circuits/MainHighVoltage.jpg
The pre-charge circuit should just operate when the system is first turned on, not every time the throttle is depressed. The motor controller stays on during periods when the throttle is not depressed during the drive cycle and therefore stays charged. It is only when the key is turned off that the motor controller will bleed down the capacitor voltage and then need to be re-pre-charged when restarted with the keyswitch.

The pre-charge function is to limit inrush on initial energizing of the motor controller. The controller itself will limit current in the normal operation of controlling the motor including rapid depression of the throttle pedal.

Number (1) is correct method.

Here is a good paper on it: http://liionbms.com/php/precharge.php
@major thanks for your response. Link is very helpful. But I have a question about after switch turned off.

It is only when the key is turned off that the motor controller will bleed down the capacitor voltage and then need to be re-pre-charged when restarted with the keyswitch.
Does controller's fully capacitors discharge over itself after turned off? I thought Big load accumulate in capacitors after switch off. May it damage controller's circuit when it discharges?

Best regards...
Does controller's fully capacitors discharge over itself after turned off? I thought Big load accumulate in capacitors after switch off. May it damage controller's circuit when it discharges?
There is no surge when a capacitor is disconnected however it may remain charged for a long period, perhaps even after the device has been disconnected. So, such devices as controllers which have large capacitors are designed with bleed down resistors to discharge those internal capacitors in a reasonable period, usually a minute or so. A few watts of power is sacrificed during operation for safety's sake.

Note: When working with such devices it is prudent to check the terminal voltage before applying tools. Most equipment is properly designed with bleed down but there is no law for it in the DIY parts market.
@major thanks for your explanation.
Okay so this may sound stupid but that's how I feel sometimes around all you guys :p but hey I am trying...would use of the new PulsaR (when it is finally ready for primetime) negate much of this since it is supposed to come with recharge and contractors built in as well as the automated switching of for input for charging and a DC-DC also? Not saying I would go with that as I feel when you put all your eggs in one basket, it can take a lot longer to get a full basket back instead of just picking up a couple eggs at the local market.
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