[Elektrotor]

I have been playing around with the EM57 motors in the frame again. Looking for a way to fit one motor for each axle.
Since the front / rear axles are in a different work shop for renovation at the moment I couldn't test out how the prop shafts would look like. But I believe that the rear one will be rather short with a steep angle and there will not be enough space for a reduction gearbox. Unless it's a LWB (which my series IIA isn't). The newer 2*320 Nm motors would be to prefer to get enough wheel torque in that case.
Alternatively could the rear motor be suspended to line up with the axle somehow to allow it to move up and down. 🤪

The front one still needs to come further down in order to let the body rest on the frame.

Another crazy idea would be to flip the rear axle over so the rear offset is to the left instead of right and fit both motors under the mid seat. This would still mean that the rear prop is very short and the front very long...

Double motor 320Nm	Front	Rear
Motor max speed	10 500​	10 500​	rpm
Motor torque	320​	320​	Nm
Reduction gear	1​	1​	to 1
F/R axle	4,7​	4,7​	to 1
Wheel max speed L/H	2 234​	2 234​	rpm
Wheel circumference	2,5​	2,5​	m
Vehicle max speed L/H	335​	335​	km/h	Total torque	Total power
Wheel shaft torque L/H	1 504​	1 504​	Nm	3 008​	300​

Disadvantages
Requires 40 kWh battery to avoid power surge at full throttle.
Requires 2*320 Nm motors (I only have 2*250 Nm available at the moment.) 🤑🤑🤑
Not that high wheel torque, if no reduction gear is fitted.
Advantages:
No diff lock needed! 😆
No problem to keep up on the highway! 🤣
Very efficient with low losses!
40 kWh => pretty long range!

I think this is something for future projects! If I ever build a tough Defender 110" or Toyota Land Cruiser !?

 

[Chris_W]

Hey Tor, looks like you’ve spent a lot of time shuffling things around. Too bad nothing seems to be ideal. What now? I did like Jens idea of using the one ton transfer case and removing all the clutch/flywheel and gears except 4th. In our case use the stock gearbox/transfer case and only run 3rd. That would give you a 7.45 final ratio? Although I still like the LT230 if it can be done cleanly😉

 

[Bratitude]

The motor torque figures you are referring to have todo with the more powerfulll inverters. The Gen2,3,4,5 etc leafs all use the same motor, the em57. The newer leafs just use more powerful inverters. 110kw and 160kw compared to the older 80kw inverter.

 

[remy_martian]

Why not do a mild body lift? Hockey pucks...

 

[Elektrotor]

Hey Tor, looks like you’ve spent a lot of time shuffling things around. Too bad nothing seems to be ideal. What now? I did like Jens idea of using the one ton transfer case and removing all the clutch/flywheel and gears except 4th. In our case use the stock gearbox/transfer case and only run 3rd. That would give you a 7.45 final ratio? Although I still like the LT230 if it can be done cleanly😉

Hi Chris,
Yes, I agree! Seems like nothing fits and it wont fall in place like a jig saw puzzle how much I ever turn the pieces around. If not for the third option. The one that uses the Leaf box as a transfer case with changed gear ratio from 8.1:1 => 4.x:1. I know it's a long shot, will take forever and a month and cost a fortune. But what the heck! I want to build more than one Leaf driven 4*4 and there might be others out there who want the same! Why not try to find the best and most efficient way of doing it? I think it's worth trying at least!
Here is how it could look like.

It might be possible to move it further to the front with the cable connections just inside the engine bay. I will try to simulate that next time.

Nissan box with new gear wheel
Motor speed	10 500​	rpm
Motor torque	254​	Nm
Gear ratio	4,35​	to 1
F/R axle	4,7​	to 1
Wheel max speed	514​	rpm
Wheel circumference	2,5​	m
Vehicle max speed	77​	km/h
Wheel shaft torque	5 193​	Nm

I know some people may say 10500 rpm is way too high revs for the EM57 motor. Has there been accidents due to this? If I have counted correct this is the max speed for the Leaf with 150 km/h?
If this is the case, what is safe rpm for continuous speed for that motor?
I don't want to drive the old series IIA Land Rover any faster than 80 km/h. It will bounce off the road! 🤣

Disadvantages:
Allot of work, time and money to develop the first gear wheel set.
No diff lock. (If no ATB is implemented)
Advantages:
Long prop shafts with favorable angle.
Less space needed!
Low weight
Low transmission losses
Silent (compared to the old transfer case.)
Possible to implement reduced slip diff. (ATB)?

 

[Bratitude]

I’m currently working on stub flanges and a replacement gearset for the leaf gearbox to use it as a transfer case. There’s talks of getting a quaife ATB made for the leaf diff aswell.

There’s a case where the rotor expanded and came in contact with the stator. This was from pushing high rpm and power out of the motor. I’ll dig up the post.

 

[SuperV8]

Hi Chris,
Yes, I agree! Seems like nothing fits and it wont fall in place like a jig saw puzzle how much I ever turn the pieces around. If not for the third option. The one that uses the Leaf box as a transfer case with changed gear ratio from 8.1:1 => 4.x:1. I know it's a long shot, will take forever and a month and cost a fortune. But what the heck! I want to build more than one Leaf driven 4*4 and there might be others out there who want the same! Why not try to find the best and most efficient way of doing it? I think it's worth trying at least!
Here is how it could look like.

View attachment 126726

View attachment 126727

View attachment 126728

View attachment 126729

It might be possible to move it further to the front with the cable connections just inside the engine bay. I will try to simulate that next time.

View attachment 126730

Nissan box with new gear wheel
Motor speed	10 500​	rpm
Motor torque	254​	Nm
Gear ratio	4,35​	to 1
F/R axle	4,7​	to 1
Wheel max speed	514​	rpm
Wheel circumference	2,5​	m
Vehicle max speed	77​	km/h
Wheel shaft torque	5 193​	Nm

I know some people may say 10500 rpm is way too high revs for the EM57 motor. Has there been accidents due to this? If I have counted correct this is the max speed for the Leaf with 150 km/h?
If this is the case, what is safe rpm for continuous speed for that motor?
I don't want to drive the old series IIA Land Rover any faster than 80 km/h. It will bounce off the road! 🤣

Disadvantages:
Allot of work, time and money to develop the first gear wheel set.
No diff lock. (If no ATB is implemented)
Advantages:
Long prop shafts with favorable angle.
Less space needed!
Low weight
Low transmission losses
Silent (compared to the old transfer case.)
Possible to implement reduced slip diff. (ATB)?

Interesting project, learn't to drive in a Series III.
What's the purpose of this vehicle?
will it ever see a muddy field or mountain? If yes then I would definitely recommend a locking/torque biasing center diff otherwise it will be effectively one wheel drive. If just road vehicle would be fine without.

In the example where you drive the transfer box directly with the motor - I did some digging and the main shaft taper roller bearings for the LT230 are Landrover part number are FRC5564.
this is Timken 18790/18720. Can't decipher the Timken specs - but SKF 18790/18720 has a limiting speed (max mechanical speed) of 8000r/min

SKF

www.skf.com

10,390rpm's I have seen as the max RPM for the leaf motor so shouldn't be an issue.

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/03/f13/ape006_burress_2013_o.pdf

 

[Bratitude]

Re high rpm/ power on the leaf motor What happens if you spin a leaf engine >20.000 RPM - openinverter forum
20k rpm and she blew

 

[remy_martian]

"the logger was not turned on at this time, but according to the noise i've heard it was beyond 20.000. But of course this is just a guess."

Whole lotta science going on there...bovine excremental recitations 🤪

 

[Rusted B&B]

This is very cool project!

 

[Elektrotor]

This is very cool project!

Thanks!

 

[Rusted B&B]

With the gearbox - couldn't you just weld or lock the diff and use one output to a transfercase/Diff and just use a stub flange on the other side to seal it. Or you that output for something else

 

[Chris_W]

With the gearbox - couldn't you just weld or lock the diff and use one output to a transfercase/Diff and just use a stub flange on the other side to seal it. Or you that output for something else

The Leaf gear ratio is 8.2:1 and the Series 2 diff is 4.7:1 so that means your final ratio would be 38.5:1.
Even if you wanted to take it up to the max of 10,000rpm you could only get up to 24.5 mph.
Lots of torque though…

 

[Rusted B&B]

The Leaf gear ratio is 8.2:1 and the Series 2 diff is 4.7:1 so that means your final ratio would be 38.5:1.
Even if you wanted to take it up to the max of 10,000rpm you could only get up to 24.5 mph.
Lots of torque though…

True - it's actually what I'm doing for my Tank build - and am debating about putting a transferase in-between the leaf gearbox and the diff - that way I can do some super crawling if I need to or just gear to 1:1 and I only need like 35mph top speed anyway so I'm ok with it

 

[Elektrotor]

Working on getting the battery cells into the box. I need to make the box 15-20 mm shorter and the edge for the lid has to go partly inward instead of outward. To make the box fit in the engine bay.

 

[Elektrotor]

Interesting project, learn't to drive in a Series III.
What's the purpose of this vehicle?
will it ever see a muddy field or mountain? If yes then I would definitely recommend a locking/torque biasing center diff otherwise it will be effectively one wheel drive. If just road vehicle would be fine without.
Thanks for your reply SuperV8!
Main purpose is on road but since it is an off road vehicle I want to make it as good as possible. An ABT (reduced slip diff) or diff lock would be ideal.

In the example where you drive the transfer box directly with the motor - I did some digging and the main shaft taper roller bearings for the LT230 are Landrover part number are FRC5564.
this is Timken 18790/18720. Can't decipher the Timken specs - but SKF 18790/18720 has a limiting speed (max mechanical speed) of 8000r/min

SKF

www.skf.com

Yes, I think 5-6000 rpm is max input for the transfer case.

10,390rpm's I have seen as the max RPM for the leaf motor so shouldn't be an issue.

https://www.energy.gov/sites/prod/files/2014/03/f13/ape006_burress_2013_o.pdf

Agree! I will try to keep it lower at normal driving if possible.

 

[Elektrotor]

I’m currently working on stub flanges and a replacement gearset for the leaf gearbox to use it as a transfer case. There’s talks of getting a quaife ATB made for the leaf diff aswell.

This will be great if it works out! Please keep me posted on how it goes!

 

[Rusted B&B]

Just curious how your controlling both motors? From one resolver ev controller and one battery pack, Or is each getting there own system? The draw from one battery for two motors is gonna be a lot unless it's spec'd for it

 

[Elektrotor]

Just curious how your controlling both motors? From one resolver ev controller and one battery pack, Or is each getting there own system? The draw from one battery for two motors is gonna be a lot unless it's spec'd for it

I heard Resolve-EV is planning to have a controller that is able to control two motors. Idea was to use one 40 kWh battery but I have not made any calculations on C-rate or voltage surge during full throttle. Just two 80 KW motors in parallel instead of one 110 kW.